My 258 Plan! ( Now with photos)

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   They make nylon pins for removing the bearings with the crank still in the car, they're called "roll out pins", or it would be easier to make one out of a cotter pin, the oil holes drilled in a crank are usually at a angle. I've seen a diagram about this in some of the older Chilton manuals.   I've done this also years ago, you have to be careful to keep everything clean.
I've just cut the 2x4 exactly the width of the fender mounting flanges, no danger of bending those. No matter how heavily you pad that top support, it's liable to put dents in the tops of those flat fenders. That's about 300lbs on each fender, a lot worse than sitting on your fenders. 
I also used something similiar to support the engine when I took transmission out of my Jetta.

Edited by tyrodtom - Mar/18/2009 at 6:45pm

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tyrodtom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2829	Post Options Post Reply Quote tyrodtom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 6:41pm
	They make nylon pins for removing the bearings with the crank still in the car, they're called "roll out pins", or it would be easier to make one out of a cotter pin, the oil holes drilled in a crank are usually at a angle. I've seen a diagram about this in some of the older Chilton manuals. I've done this also years ago, you have to be careful to keep everything clean. I've just cut the 2x4 exactly the width of the fender mounting flanges, no danger of bending those. No matter how heavily you pad that top support, it's liable to put dents in the tops of those flat fenders. That's about 300lbs on each fender, a lot worse than sitting on your fenders. I also used something similiar to support the engine when I took transmission out of my Jetta. Edited by tyrodtom - Mar/18/2009 at 6:45pm
	66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.

BadTad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/22/2007 Status: Offline Points: 461	Post Options Post Reply Quote BadTad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 7:21pm
	so basically I need to support the weight of the engine so I can remove the cross member under the oil pan, thus getting access to the oil pan.. then I need to see what size bearings are in there.. buy same size replacements and find the proper tool for swapping them in..
	1967 AMC Rambler

forest Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2135	Post Options Post Reply Quote forest Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 7:30pm
	what about miking the crank? All this work will be for nothing if you put new bearings on a smoked crank..... Pull the motor and do it right, if it is/was knocking, your doomed with the crank you have in there.
	setting guys out by car lengths....

BadTad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/22/2007 Status: Offline Points: 461	Post Options Post Reply Quote BadTad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 8:31pm
	it was my understanding that I could get away with just the bearings.. guess not?
	1967 AMC Rambler

tyrodtom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2829	Post Options Post Reply Quote tyrodtom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 8:41pm
	forest is right, if it's beginning to knock the crank is probably damaged . That means it has to come out to be turned to the next undersize at least. If it's not knocking you might get by with using Plastigauge on the main and rod journals to see if the enggine could be brought back to proper clearances with just new bearings. Though i've done it with the engine left in in the past I really reccomend talking the engine out, taking it apart under good light where you can see every fault. Putting it back together as careful and CLEAN as possible. It hard to do that laying on your back working by the light of a droplight. The hardest part to me was bracing myself under the car to torgue the mains.
	66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.

BadTad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/22/2007 Status: Offline Points: 461	Post Options Post Reply Quote BadTad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 8:57pm
	yeah it's got a very very loud knock.. scary loud.. maybe I should just be patient, pull the 199 head scrap the block and go with the 258 after all. I don't like the oiling set up on the 199 either, the passage to the rockers was caked shut when I did the head :/ I suppose in the mean time I can work on the rest of the car.. need new weather stripping all around, heater core, install the wipers, install the weather eye, new glove box, install the trunk lock.. rear floor pans.. bottom/top coat on the floor.. recover the seats.. install the driver side mirror.. remove the last of the dash pad junk.. fix the fuel tank gauge.. find the lose wire that's setting off the horn.. oh yeah.. plenty to do :/
	1967 AMC Rambler

PlazinJavelin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/02/2008 Location: Atlanta USA Status: Offline Points: 1911	Post Options Post Reply Quote PlazinJavelin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 9:39pm
	I once had a badly knocking VW I4 engine. I checked the valve/cam clearances and they ranged from ok to marginal so I left the head alone. I poished the crank by hand where the bearing had been slapping and installed slightly over sized crank bearings. I actually installed the bearings one piston at a time checking clearance and testing the motor turning over. If the motor strained to turn, I pulled the bearings, slightly sanded the back sides reinstalled and tested again. By the time I was done, the knock was gone, the engine ran better than when I bought the car, and I sold it about 18 months later still running well. Of course that was done on a daily driver that I had no attachment to and it wasn't some kind of a classic I was interested in keeping. It worked well on a car I didn't want to spend any money on or make in investment in. Probably not a recommend method for some thing you care more about. But I guess that type of a repair could be a patch to get the car drivable until you can afford to do it right. Just don't break it worse before you get it done properly.
	PlazinJavelin Marlin Wannabe

BadTad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/22/2007 Status: Offline Points: 461	Post Options Post Reply Quote BadTad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/18/2009 at 10:39pm
	I've got another 2.5 weeks of lay off at the last half of april.. I should be able to have the 258 sorted by then and be on the road.. I'll have to learn to be patient and order parts pro-actively, but I think we can do it :)
	1967 AMC Rambler

BadTad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/22/2007 Status: Offline Points: 461	Post Options Post Reply Quote BadTad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/19/2009 at 12:23am
	ah hell... I might as well use the 7120 head, I'll sell the 199 head off later to recoup a few bucks. I found a gasket set as well as roller timing set. Need to round up my pistons/rods. I will definitely forgo the turbo at this time, but will build the rest of the 258 block as originally intended with this topic. I am sure however that my existing tranny and most likely rear end, will not last for long. Pretty sure the intake/exhaust is laying around here somewhere as well. I will carb it for now, worry about efi and turbo far down the road when I can beef up the drive train ($$) Need to get the torque plate made at work and have the 258 block taken .30 os for the forged goodies.. might as well do this right and leave my self the option of other upgrades along the way, right??!! Also got a bead on a mild cam... not going to go overboard for now.. will post the specs when I can. I'm sure you guys would rather see me do a decent build than a band aid patch!
	1967 AMC Rambler

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7109	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/19/2009 at 6:30am
	I didn't realize it had a bad knock either. You'd have to at least find the knocking rod and measure that journal. Rod bearings can be purchased 0.060" undersize, but that's the max. I had a 258 that I was attempting just to patch up a few years ago. A fuel pump leak squirted right on one rod bearing and wore it out. That one journal was 0.080" worn down though, the others were fine for a high mileage engine -- just starting to show a little copper but evenly worn. Since I had the pan off (80s Concord) I put an 0.060" bearing in anyway. Still knocked, of course, but was worth $5 for a bearing and a little silicone on the pan to put it back in and try it. At least I could drive it over to the salvage yard, and they gave me $50 extra since it drove in. They told me they'd do that on the phone, but weren't happy to hear it knocking when I drove up! If that journal is under 0.060" undersize, you would be able to get by for 5K-10K miles before it started knocking again... most likely, and with just normal driving. But it's a lot of work when you have an engine there ready to rebuild, and just more time and money that would be better spent on other things since you plan on keeping the car around. Patience prevails!
	Frank Swygert American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com