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Multi carb 232/258 |
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MaxiBlue
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/25/2012 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Farna, I really like the idea of making the other two carbs act as mechanical secondaries. It also solves the problem of converting them all to electric chokes. Only the center one should have to be choked. I want to do this with no aftermarket manifolds or performance carbs. I want it to look like a 20 year old saw something in a hot rod magazine in the 50s and went out into his uncles junkyard and tried to make what he saw. I know I can buy a weber cross flow setup with a Clifford manifold and linkage already set up, but I want the vintage hot rod look and engineering. Since I'm envisioning a rotating rod with arms to pull down on the linkages, the slide built into an arm shouldn't be too hard to make.
Thanks a lot Frank, Scott |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Frank's idea of only the center carb setup for idle/warmup I think is good, with progression on a pair of outboards. The 232 on the old iron manifolds at least seems a bit lean on the end cylinders, judging by plug reads. Progressive outer carbs set to just come out of mid-range when the center one is half-throttle might fix that.
Three YFs maybe? They're a PITA to rejet, but nice carbs to work with.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19679 |
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The 60s factory Tri-Power setups were like that -- carb 1 and 3 had no idle or choke, a sliding rod so the throttle had to be open to about where the idle circuit was falling out. Sounds like a great idea Maxiblue! When running dual carbs both have to have choke and idle circuits and can't be progressive. In some ways three is better.
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Frank Swygert
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wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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" I do have this stupid idea running around in my head to experiment with the old Buick Straight-8 idea of "compound carburetion". That was the system where Buick had two 2-barrels, but only one was connected to linkage. The other had a counterweight that would allow the secondary carb to remain closed until such an engine speed/vacuum situation called for it. At which point vacuum would overcome the counterweight and open the carb."
Every bump in the road would seemingly have an effect on the the counterweight? That said look at an Edelbrock/Carter carb., the secondaries have counterweights, so maybe there is something I'm not understanding. I'd post pictures but after 5+ weeks I'm still about 7 shy of 30 posts and that includes a number of "I didn't really have to" posts just to get my numbers up.
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Heavy 488
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/27/2019 Location: In the Status: Offline Points: 3553 |
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the weird Holley/Weber used on pinto and vega had progressive 2 barrels.
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g-man
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Cal Coast Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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I understand that you are more interested in "looks" than "performance", but don't you think that you could have both with a similar set-up to what I've attached below.
I think that this is a very sexy looking set-up, and if something like this was attached to a 4.0 cylinder head, would be very impressive, performance wise. I'm sure this doesn't fit your desire...but I just thought I would throw it out there to look at, and consider. g-man Edited by g-man - May/26/2020 at 4:43pm |
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AMC only daily driver
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19679 |
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The "weird" Holley/Weber is a license built Weber, similar (if not identical) to the Weber 32/36, but I don't know what size the H/W was. Counter weights used in the Edelbrock/Carter vacuum secondary 4V instead of springs like the Holleys? Sounds like the Buick 2V for the straight eights was just a vacuum secondary two barrel.
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Frank Swygert
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MaxiBlue
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/25/2012 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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I had a lot of experience in tuning the Holley 5200 and Weber DGAV 32/36 carburetors as they were used in a four cylinder racing class that I was a part of. They were very easy to work with and if kept clean they really didn't give you much trouble. The parts between the Holley and Weber were mostly not interchangeable, but the architecture was the same, so if you could work on one, the other was very familiar. The amount of things that you could tune was incredible. Jets, air bleeds were removable, emulsion tubes could be changed, Even the accelerator pump had 2-3 different arm positions to adjust pump shot depending on model. It was truly a nice carb design. The Weber DGAS was a 38/38 carb that was different. It shared the design of the DGAV with it's larger choke horn than the 5200, but it was not a progressive carb. The DGAS had two gear driven throttles instead of a progressive linkage. The carb was illegal in my class, and due to its linkage, it was easy to police. It also had larger throttle bores. Wow, that was a lot of rambling...
Anyhow, for this type of application, are there better YF's as far as models or years to look for? I don't have to worry about emissions, but would be interested in simplicity or if any years had easier to tune features. I've rebuilt the one on my 73 232, and the design was much simpler than the Webers. It seems to use a metering rod that opens a jet orifice depending on height. Are there bigger/smaller jets, or bigger smaller metering rods? How do you adjust the main circuit of this carb? Also, does this carb have an accelerator pump? I see only the main diaphragm. I would imagine that if I was going to use this carb in a secondary situation, the secondary carbs should probably only have working main circuits as idle and accelerator circuits would probably cause extreme rich conditions. Is my thinking correct on this? Thanks a lot for your help and advice! Scott Edited by MaxiBlue - May/27/2020 at 11:11pm |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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FWIW, I don't know what differences there might be between YF/YFA submodels, but for my decidedly non-performance application I wanted new and supportable/repairable and available. I went with the one offered by Mike's Carburetors, figuring available and supported beats four aces. Mine was wildly wrongly jetted, I did the Weber-no-no of drilling out the jet. It's worked out just great. $125 for a new carb. Probably chinese made, but finish quality is great, and most importantly, Mike's stands behind their products so they're "QAing" for us. BTW, I too really like the 32/36 and 38/38. I have the latter on my 195.6 OHV now, it's been great. But next time around I'd stick with the 32/36, just slightly easier all around. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
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Only question I have is the older stock YF intake is cast iron..you would have to machine and weld cast iron.....
Where the later aluminum is somewhat easier to weld.. but the later one is a 2bbl BBD. Not the YF.. |
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