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Model 20/Moser Axle kits/model 20 |
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farna 
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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 Posted: Sep/30/2015 at 8:09am |
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The keyway started around 61-62, but not sure without looking at the books. Just made it easier for service guys to put the hub back on right without marking first. A hardened key can be used, and I think that's what was used when racers would use three keyways in the late 60s/early 70s. Then you tear up the axle and hub is you manage to make it slip. So what, they were available from the factory back then!
I'd go with a modified Ford Explorer or Ranger 8.8" instead of the 9". Much cheaper, and junk yard available now! |
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Frank Swygert
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Red Devil
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Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Posted: Sep/30/2015 at 8:38am |
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I looked at the Explorer 8.8" and it's a c-clip axle, it has quite heavy tubes (truck axle), the pinion offset is over 2" ... so would need a fair bit of work to suit what I'm wanting ... but is likely fine for some applications. Guess it depends on what you're after and how big your budget?
A Moser DBP circle track style floater housing c/w hub assemblies, rotor plates, axle shafts, etc. and built to your specs (perch spacing, width, pinion offset) is around $950. There are lots of other circle track suppliers with similar packages. Thanks,RD. |
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farna
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Posted: Sep/30/2015 at 8:45pm |
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I have a late Ranger axle that has been shortened on one side at my shop now. A short side axle was installed on the long side, the long side tube had 1.5" cut out of it. That brings the pinion closer to center, and makes the axle about perfect for an American. This is often done to the Explorer axle, with 3" cut out of the long side though. The offset pinion isn't a mechanical problem per se, but for some it is a problem with the way the exhaust is run. Unless the car is lowered in the rear a good bit the tunnel isn't an issue either.
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Frank Swygert
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Sep/30/2015 at 9:17pm |
Exactly right - finally good info from out of the so-so info. The key hard or not does extremely little down to noting to help hold the hub. You WEAKEN the hub cutting more slots in it. Pressing the tapered axle into the hub tends to want to spread it - with more slots in the hub, you create weak spots where the slot bottom and side meet, 2 more slots means 4 more weak spots added to the hub. Crack. The spines and taper hold it tight. Cutting more keyways and adding more keys never really helped , it just gave some who weren't engineers a "warm fuzzy" and then that seemed to take on a life of its own as an answer, more shadetree garbage we need to dispel and discourage as spreading it does more harm that good - ever. Seriously I could bust a hub or two, or spin an axle in a hub once or twice then cut keyways into the axle and hub and redo it, and it it held up, I'd of course spread the word heck yea I've not had a failure since I cut those slots and added the keys. Real scientific - did they do NOTHING ELSE AT ALL differently? They are going by best 2 out of 3 for proof? The keys are simply to relocate the same hub on the same axle in the exact same position since the splines in the axle cut the mating splines into the hubs when they are assembled, so each axle/hub assembly is unique. If the hub isn't properly installed to the correct axle depth and then not torqued correctly, thigns will come loose even with extra keys. But properly set as far as the axle sticking through the hub the prescribed amount and then torqued by the book, they'll handle some heft HP. Are the 1 piece better? Oh, yeah, can't argue that at all. Especially since so few seem to have any real luck, likely due to bad information, or bad procedures, but one piece is ultimately the best solution and not all that expensive - especially since it's near impossible to find NEW hubs that don't already have splines cut into them by different axles........ so should not technically be used on other axles - as it can lead to premature failure. You want axles that won't divorce the hub, 1 piece. Spinning the wheel/tire on slick surfaces, then suddenly gripping the pavement is generally what leads to the failure - inertia, like a slide-hammer, WHACK, you bust the axle loose from the hub by suddenly stopping the hub from moving but you have the inertial force of the entire transmission, drive shaft, carrier, ring gear, etc. wanting to keep the axles moving, which are themselves rather heaving - having decent mass. Physics.
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1970390amx
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Joined: Jul/11/2008 Location: colorado Status: Offline Points: 3314 |
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Posted: Sep/30/2015 at 9:59pm |
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It seems strange to me how often I hear about hubs spinning on axles that have just been worked on
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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box |
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billd
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Posted: Sep/30/2015 at 10:33pm |
LOL - it's pure logic. you shouldn't find it strange - uh, ok, I get it - what you are really meaning. Yup. I get it. and I find it strange how often I've worked on them over 4 decades and have not had a problem, no come-backs, no spun hubs/axles, and my current cars have some decent power. Maybe I'm lucky, but then again, no, I'm never lucky at anything, luck avoids me at all costs. i've been told by some that I have no idea what I'm talking about, I hear it every few days here so apparently it IS all luck. I'm beginning to believe they are correct. Maybe I need to just totally stop driving my 73, I'm very certain with that 360 in there which can't be built on a budget so is a figment of my imagination or maybe just a dream, is going to blow those axles next time out. Or perhaps I need to avoid replacing the axle seals and bearing, or just repacking those rear axle bearings as sure as heck, if I work on 'em they'll fail soon. Especially since I can't hold a candle to those who know better due to vast experiences of those who learned it all by working on the cars they've owned. Just goofing around............ nothing serious. Maybe some day by accident I'll get lucky and say something with a basis in fact. But why try, and keep getting shot at? |
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Red Devil
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Posted: Oct/01/2015 at 8:46am |
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... wasn't the double-key recommendation (using wider keys, IIRC) for use in mild performance applications from "Performance American Style" ... a factory publication for performance modifications ... with recommended upgrade to one-piece shafts for all-out applications?
Thanks,RD. |
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Posted: Oct/01/2015 at 10:27am |
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Yes, it was, and the fact that it was used back in the late 60s is the only reason I even mentioned that is shouldn't hurt. To quote:
"A 3/16-inch wide key retains the rear axle shaft to the wheel and flange assembly. The key is adequate for regular passenger car use, but marginal for the mildest performance applications. Therefore, it's a good idea to install two 1/4-inch wide keys 180* apart." Now that was 1973. I don't know what whoever wrote that was thinking. Maybe more of the old Ford axles that were smooth and only had a key. I wouldn't do that today -- we live and learn. And Bill, I wouldn't worry about yours. Just torque the axle nut every 10 years, five if you're worried about it. Shouldn't hurt to loosen and torque back down as many times as you'd like. If concerned, or don't remember when it was done last, retorque! |
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Frank Swygert
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1st time Amx
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Joined: Sep/07/2015 Location: Tac, Washington Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: May/11/2016 at 4:05pm |
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sent both sample axels into Mosser and now both new axels are 3/8 of an inch off, drum didn't cover shoe. took 2 weeks and pictures being sent they finally had me send them back also with sample axle and now 1/8 of an inch to much also .002 thousandths out of round would not recommend them for any type of work....they will not return phone calls...unless you like wasting your money try someone else
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needafasterAMX
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Joined: Feb/20/2008 Location: TLH,Florida Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Posted: May/11/2016 at 6:38pm |
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Moser does suck, They must have a young guy or someone that don't care or both.
They did not make mine right also, But I made them work for now. Edited by needafasterAMX - May/11/2016 at 11:39pm |
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74 AMX, 401
Viper spec T56 6 speed trans Hydroboost brakes with rear disks from a Avenger 3:73 TG rear,now Trutrac with 3:15 A Turbo is in my future. |
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White70JavelinSST wrote: