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Mega Modding Braking, Suspension & Steering

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 343sharpstick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 9:35am
I love what your doing.
I just wish you could drive the car with your changes and see how it works, and start tuning and competing with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 9:57am
Thanks! I do too, though it is to be a daily driver, ever when I get to completing it.

Hind sight, I should have left my perfectly good running engine and tranny alone, so I could test each upgrade and feel happier knowing there are real improvements over just esthetics. There are some things that bug me, mainly using obvious non 70's brakes, wheels, alternator and engine accessories. Not that i wanted all factory components, just wanted to keep things in the period, or be sneaky with newer tech to be not so noticeable.

Oddly enough the engine compartment will give away too much of the details once you get looking around at new components.

I may post a light weight upper and lower control arm reinforcement mod, which is a variation to most other mods pertaining to strengthening. Since I have a few things needing welded up, that part will be added to my list. Unfortunately welding is something I can't do, at least for now.



Edited by 304-dude - Aug/31/2017 at 4:15pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 10:08pm
Well, I did a wee test run with stiffness after some elongating the strut rod holes on the poly bushings.

Found a few wee issues. One is I may need to obtain a rubber bushing kit that includes the steel cups that fit between the bracket and bushing. It is to keep the poly bushings in place to lock against the bracket. Will end up trimming off the thin ring that was left from my modification, as the locating ring was sturdy enough before the modification.

Still will need to order Teflon washers, as the poly grabs the metal compression washers.

Also I may need to touch up the cups slightly as I did not use as much compression as I thought. So it is to allow just a wee less pressure against the ball.

All in all it did free up the stiffness when pivoted, and kept the rod in check to its proper angle of pivot. Floating pivot is no longer.

Also it works best with concave facing away from the bushings on both ends.

Though I think rounding the face a wee bit will assist with correcting enough to use the factory setup with concave flipped on one side only.

I will test further when I have time.

As a wee update... looks like a reshaping of the bushing face to the concave compression washer. Too bad the washer is not fully concave down to the hole. I cleaned up one washer and greased up the bushings face for the concave fitment against it. After a few movements of the rod by hand, it proved it needs the Teflon washers and the flat edge rounded. Looks like concave faced washers are the only way to go with this setup. It won't make it worse just keep things in proper function. Will also recommend using the metal seats for rubber bushings. Some kits have them others don't. Though I am not sure if there is enough clearance for the ball with them as of yet. May not be able to use them.

Edited by 304-dude - Sep/01/2017 at 9:46am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/02/2017 at 6:49am
Almost done... more updates near the end of my page entry, to my Delrin poly bushing mod. With very good results.

Please note, the pictures were set by improper orientation of bracket assembly for better image clarity of components.

http://theamcforum.com/forum/topic53345_post789352.html#789352

Edited by 304-dude - Sep/02/2017 at 6:58am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/21/2017 at 8:35pm
Modding SN95 Hydroboost, Braking and Steering


Parts used: (98-04 can be used)

95 Corsica hydraulic clutch (aluminum body with Russell fitting)
96 Police Caprice / Impala SS - GM big bore front calipers (Mounted - Rear)
2001-2004 Mustang GT front rotors (Mounted - rear)
2011-2014 S197 Mustang standard 13" dual piston floater calipers (Mounted front)
2015 up S550 Mustang standard 14" front rotors up front

If using a V8 Explorer pump use the line below.
07 F350 V10 Super Duty - Pump to Hydroboost - 39.25" hydraulic line (Edelmann 80440) May have to bend the pump fitting a wee more to fit.

If using Mustang GT pump use line below, may be a wee long, and it's the only line with a proper fitting for the pump.
00 Mustang GT - Pump to Hydroboost - 57" Hydraulic line (Edelmann 91974)

00 Mustang V6 - Hydroboost to R&P - hydraulic line (Edelmann 91986)
Less costly, and fits for the custom application in our cars.
02 F150 Master Cylinder Reservoir
04 Mustang GT/Cobra - Hydroboost unit
15 E350 SD - Remote power steering reservoir (3 port)
Additional reference for completing a full Ford setup: Installing a C-III pump

WARNING

Mixing parts from various years and models can make selecting over the counter parts to service difficult to properly match.

EXAMPLE: Pre 05 CIII power steering pumps mostly use a 16mm Swivel O-ring (type III). Pre 05 V8 Mustangs used a standard 16mm O-ring fitting at the pump output, which limits line compatibility options down to just V8 Mustang applications. No other pump to Hydroboost line can be used as a direct fit. So, aftermarket fittings and lines will have to be done if the oem line cannot fit within the engine bay.

Another more limiting issue is the Hydroboost unit. Again Ford made the 89 to 2004 V8 Mustang limited to just V8 Mustang parts. The Hydroboost for V8 Mustangs has an 18mm type III input port, which makes it mostly limited to the V8 Mustang pump to Hydroboost hydraulic line, until...

Touched by the Super Duty V10 gods

Since I chose to use a pre 02 V8 Explorer power steering pump in my custom serpentine setup, based on Ford modular design, I created a monster. Well if it were not for a limited run of F250/F350 V10 Super Duty trucks built between 05 and 07, I would be stuck using aftermarket fittings and lines. So, thank you Ford for finally making Super Duty trucks use 18mm Type III fittings. The only issue is a slightly more bend at the pump end of the line to make the fit work, as the line is almost 20 inches shorter than the extra long V8 Mustang line.

Removing Mounting Plate:

It is fairly simple, use a C-clip plier to remove the large C-clip that is used for safety precautions.

Once the C-clip is removed, lay the Hydroboost flat so that the plate is set against the ground or work bench. Take a punch and hammer and knock a corner edge of the large lock nut. You may need to flip and do another side a few times in rotation. The nut will undo it's self from locking against the plate, and spin free for removal.

All removed parts are shown in the picture below.




Removing Pedal Apply Rod:

Once the rubber boot is removed, cut off the staked section flush with a Dremel tool or hack saw, so that the cup for the ball end of the rod has a smooth and equally formed side wall. The cut off area should be a ring almost as wide as the remaining cup.

Once done, the actuating rod will fall out of the apply piston's cup. Clean up the cut edges so that your original apply rod fits smoothly.


Modding original brake apply rod




I cut down the rod so it is 7/8" longer than the factory Mustang rod (About 2-3/8" from eye inner radius to tip), which makes the replacement about 3-1/4" long from tip to Inner radius of the eye. Once cut, rounding for fitment and verification of pedal placement and clearance will need to be done. The stock brake pedal and my GM pedal both are just above to a 2:1 ratio on the apply rod. So, about 1" apply rod travel is close to 2.1250" of pedal travel.


Brake Line Connections:

I will leave ports alone and lines setup like stock 04 Mustang setup, minus the proportioning valve.

The hydraulic clutch master cylinder will engage the secondary front disc calipers independently if the brake pedal is not engaged, else will work as a slave to the brake pedal as one engagement.

An in line brake bias valve on the rear brake line, and a few other brake hardware enhancements will be used as things are tied into place.


Brake Fluid Reservoir Mods:

Easy mod on any Ford master cylinder reservoir. Cut off the wee tabs that are 180° apart located inside the fill neck. They are to keep the float body in place when upside down. Once removed the barrel float body will drop out. Will make access for cleaning out much easier. For me it will allow for more capacity to leave it out. I made even more capacity by cutting out the float cylinder top half. A heated Exacto knife cuts it out in 1/4 sections.

I also removed the low fluid sensor switch at the bottom, since it is not used.

The parts I removed for modification are shown below.



This is the inside of fill chamber, with the low fluid float and the upper half of the cylinder removed.



Notice there are many chambers to keep fluid from sloshing about and sending false signals by the sensor. Opening up the sensor area can assist in allowing more fluid reserve, and quicker response to the demands of the braking system in track use.

Swapping reservoir can be done with reservoirs that have the same spacing for the mounting nipples. Trouble is diameter. The SN95 V8 version has small diameter inlets to the master cylinder. While truck and vans get larger diameter inlets. I obtained a late Bronco reservoir shown below.



Notice that the Bronco reservoir is wider, even though it is about as tall.

Here is the under side. Notice the diameter of the nipples. The Mustang is about 10mm ID, and the Bronco is about 12mm ID.



I will braze a 3/4" washer on each of the 2 brass 3/4" PEX to female 3/4" NPT fittings. The washer at the NTP end will act as a seating base for the truck reservoir grommet. This mod will do just fine for a simple adapter without the need of modding any of the components for fitment.


Master Cylinder Mods:

Found I will have to take the master cylinder off and disassemble, to modify the rear brake to function like the front brake section.

The reservoir port is an area of needed change in function, so enlargement of the fluid feed hole for the rear port is required. Notice that the front brake bleed has a pin to keep the assembly in place when the C-clip is removed. These master cylinder bodies are used in just about every model car and truck for the years produced, some have a bleed hole for the rear brake pressure. After further review, the pin is a semi loose fit, so I guess the wee bleed hole is to equalise the differences between the pressure lost by the diameter of the semi loose fitting pin.

Here is a picture of the internal components and pin.



Note: I am going with minimal mods to the master cylinder, since they can be very effective in allowing large bore disc brakes to function on the rear wheels along with dual caliper fronts. I have reversed the seal (OEM placement, has a seal not facing forward in the bore) on the front piston so pressure from the larger throw for the rear piston will bleed into the front, to equalise some of the differences in displacement during engagement. What I am doing is removing most of the delay in independent function. As long as I keep the springs in place there will be some independent action between the front and rear pistons. Having rear engagement be quickly applied for stock purposes, will defeat some of the requirements of large disc calipers at the rear.

Here are the two feed ports of the master cylinder. To the right notice the pin in place, and the differences between the feed holes between the two ports.



For now, if repairing a limited run master cylinder on late model cars, is not so easy, as seals are not being available to parts sources. If keeping factory correct with markings and such, buying a rebuilt unit with a lifetime warranty for swapping seals would be your only option for now.

This is a low milage 04 Mustang GT/Cobra master cylinder, so everything should be like new inside. A tare down will verify and allow for cleanliness, especially when using a used item.


Hydroboost Mounting:

I got around installing the Hydroboost to the firewall as a direct fit through the factory hole for the OEM master cylinder. To mount, you must remove the brake booster, master cylinder nuts on the right side (engine bay), and remove the studs from under the dash and reverse the installation of the stud assembly and mount from the engine side and from the dash install the nuts. Then install the Hydroboost and use the large lock nut from under the dash.

Here is the bugger that needs to be remounted on the engine side of the firewall.



After further inspection, you must grind a radius in the center of the long side edge facing the Hydroboost unit. If you don't, the Hydroboost will install crooked.

Below are pictures of clearance and looks. You will need to replace the Mustang reservoir with an Explorer / Ranger reservoir, since the Hydroboost is level not tilted up by the mounting on a Mustang.





The nice thing is no mods needed to mount, and you save time and money with a custom modders adapter plate.

For some, they may not find it fun to install or remove, as it requires dropping the steering column and pedal assembly. Which may require dash removal. This is because of the large locking retaining nut and it's clearance between the pedal and steering column mounting bracket. Since I am building a car from the ground up, this is not an issue. May look into modding the locking mounting nut, by welding on an extension to the nut, if clearances allow.


Pictures and further information to come.

Edited by 304-dude - Jul/15/2018 at 9:55pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 10:24am
I have updated my changes, and cleaned up a few errors, along with some assumptions on my recent entry. Since many views have been done since I first posted yesterday.

After a bit of looking at ratios, volume and function of the pistons on the Ford and Chevy master cylinder's, I realised simple mods 1st and if need be, some changes can be done to sort out any issues.

At least the layout is coming along and easy to follow.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/30/2017 at 8:45pm
To give an idea of what is going on so far... 2-1/4" between springs and rim edge, though the springs are about 1" further out than stock, for my mods with rear mounting, thus he ability to use 10" wide 2015 Mustang GT wheels, but... there will be some mods needed to the sheet metal as expected.

One is removal of the trim lip and rolling the contour of the wheel opening out at the top inch or so, just enough for clearance for maximum wheel travel. Then finish it off with blending the body to fill in the gaps at the lower front and rear for that 70's fat Vette look. It Is a wee more flair than I expected, but I forgot I moved the spring pads out so much to compare fit with body. I put too much into clearance when selecting, so this issue was a given once that had settled in my brain.

I assume the same changes will be for the front fenders as well.

The picture below shows how far I have with the rim edge and body, though it is off from viewed angle, so the wheel looks to protrude more than what it is. The rim will rub the lip for the trim, but it will require another 1.2500" more bulge for covering the tire without rub. I can deal with that, just expecting anymore, would be less than desired for my setup.



12" rear discs look a wee small now. Ha!



2-1/4" free clearance for tires. Yes i used trailer spring plates and U-bolts. Wanted the most secure and stout setup possible for maximum stability the plates are so much bigger that they flatten put the spring arc when clamped down.



For cheap wheels they are well packaged, never had low to mid priced new wheels shipped so well. Removed the plastic they were bagged in, to show the soft fiber liner and nylon snap on lip protector. The only cheap part of the packaging is the box. Either double box or use a heavier box, and it would be considered a premium wheel. These boxes tear easy at the handle holes.

Wheel construction seems better than expected. Knowing they are pressure molded and heat treated before finishing, but it seems the paint is powder coated. Or something like it, as it seems to be bonded to the aluminum. Thin but durable. I purposely rolled the edge at the back lip on the cement, and it did not scratch up like the factory Ford Racing wheels I had. The whole wheel was done in matte black, and the face was machined in the final process.





Edited by 304-dude - Apr/06/2018 at 1:13pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/30/2017 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by 304-dude 304-dude wrote:


Still will need to order Teflon washers, as the poly grabs the metal compression washers.

i have some surplus teflon sheet, about 1/8" thick, and make washers from it with a hole saw. big hole saw first (OD) then small hole saw or Greenlee punch for the center (ID).

did the same with some Micarta sheet for suspension spacers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/01/2017 at 5:06am
S197/S550 Braking, WTF!


After contemplating my choice of wheels, and looking at the open gap between rotor and the wheel opening between the spokes, I had to think a bit. Now that I am done with my thoughts... Drum roll!

Yep, S197/S550 brakes. Tada!

No images as of yet, just a plan in the works. I will dump my Ford Explorer 4x4 12" rotors mounted in the rear, and replace wity my SN95 Mustang GT 13" front rotors, making almost an equivalent of the standard S550 rear disc diameter. Replacing the fronts with the stock Mustang GT (S550) or 2010-2012 GT500 (S197) 14" front rotors. With my 18" Heritage knock offs wheels, the brakes will look like the S550 big brake rotor size, with scaled down fitment.

The bonus is that I can still run 17" rims with s550 rotors with a proper bracket, while any Mustang 15" rotor will limit me to 18" as my smallest rim size. I see no real benefit moving to a 15" rotor with an 18" wheel. You will see why as you read further.

There are a few S197 guys already doing this with great results. Though I am going further with my customisation with my caliper setup. I will be using dual piston Mustang GT (S197) calipers on a custom mounting plate.

The reason why I am mounting two smaller dual piston calipers instead of a single large 6 piston Brembo caliper, is that two calipers have more surface area to hold against than one large racing type caliper. 6 piston pad surface area is about 180mm X 60mm while total combined surface area is 220mm X 52mm when freshly installed and increases to 245mm x 52mm after worn in. So they get a wee more grippy after time.

Since Hawk only makes one good Carbon Metallic for track, but it is noisy on the street, I am lucky enough to have Performance Friction Z rated pads available. They are quiet and also have a bonded pad to the metal backing, unlike other brands, they will not separate under extreme conditions. Plus if I use what works well with one caliper, doubling it up may make street driving touchy, if using track pads.

From what I have seen, 6 piston Brembo pads are about 50% to 40% bigger than the 2 piston floating caliper pad. Doubling the calipers makes the combined setup 20% to 30% bigger than the Brembo pad. Also many of the manufacturers that make pads, are becoming strictly ceramic based, or carbon / ceramic. Very few are still producing carbon metallic pads, which brings me to a lot of thinking of the disadvantages of the factory Ford caliper. I did not want to be stuck in ceramic land, as there are top notch carbon metallic pads for both race and street still being made, just few are producing them for stock Mustang brakes.

Why so, because peeps hate brake dust, and big money is being made on ceramics because of the hyped status they bring.

Donohue wanted the dual calipers to work back in the day, but the materials and brake designs were limited on such brakes. Now, having carbon metallic, and ceramics readily available, with better lines and fluid, such brake fires are not the issue anymore.

The only issue is weight... Instead of the 15" front and 14" rear big brakes used on S550 Brembo brake package Mustangs, my 14" front (2010-2012 GT350/500) and 13" rear (SN95 Mustang GT/Cobra Front) rotor setup will place less rotational mass on the wheels. So there will be a wee advantage over the larger rotor setup. As an added note... A 14" rotor is about 29 lbs, while the 15" rotor is about 33 lbs. A Brembo hat style is about 30 lbs, though there is more rotational mass, due to most of the weight is extened outward by the rotor's added diameter.

Centripetal force magnifies rotational counter forces, as mass is extended away from its axis. Also balancing becomes a part of the force as well. The further out the mass the more energy it takes to rotate, and stop while it is rotating. Some advantages wash out because of how much mass is displaced away from center. I rather have 13" brakes but wheel size dictates the need to add stopping power.

If I wanted light weight and excellent stopping, I would modify 60's big body Buick drums (12" x 2-1/2" finned aluminum castings with steel inserts. It would be a head scratcher, but more effective than big buck, big break packages being sold today.

With the dual calipers (around 5 lbs each freshly loaded) being 180° apart, the effects of heat from friction and air cooling are evenly distributed across both sides of the rotor. Also it has a leg up on the coolness factor over a single big brake hiding behind the wheel.

Took me forever and a day to finally make a decision which brake packages to mix... like most of my work. Though it's been a waiting game for Ford to move along with brakes, since starting collecting parts for my build back in 2004.

I get set and reset my mind set at times, and because I am not on a schedule. I have the luxury, if you can call it that, to get carried away with allot of mixed ideas. Nobody really wants to read my mind, even I don't!


S550 rotor design

Until I get my rotors, here is an image of features that may be available in the latest design.



Notice the vein ventilation is now up front of the disc. Porche, VW, Audi and other performance cars have this feature.

Also the vein design is multi directional, and is found on late sporty Cadillac among other newer cars, and allows for a lighter and more efficient design.

I have looked at may different specs on OEM spec replacements, and find varying details, mostly with weight. I assumed rotor diameter was fudged. So I looked at diameters, and found it is hard to find any that are true 14" or 355mm in diameter. Some are 352.5 roughly and others are very close, ranging from 354.5mm to 355mm.

Also I found and oddity, some have rear ventilation for the veins. Which is older design.

Now for my mock up with S550 rotor and S197 calipers. It can be done, but a wee modification is needed. The anti rattle plates need to be tossed, and depending on how thick the pads are, the pistons will need to be shaved where they meet the steel backing to the pads. There is plenty of the cup protruding from the rubber boot, to allow such shaving. It does not need much, and will check with the pads I choose to run.



Yep that rotor weighs 30lbs, 1.250" thick and is 14" not 13.86" so I get the full benefit of heat sinking and rigidity.

Beware, many are pushing performance coated rotors, and also stating cross drilled and slotted rotors are performance specific. Which is a bunch of hoey. So a plain disc will perform just as good as any that is of same size and build quality.

Here is another thing to keep straight... stationary calipers require floating rotors when diameter sizes go beyond 13". Many two piece rotors for stationary or multi piston calipers, are not floater types. Even though they work good on floating calipers, they do not adjust to heat ranges and demands for apply pressure. Seems that something must float, either the caliper or rotor, when using large brake packages.


Edited by 304-dude - Jul/05/2018 at 9:22pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/01/2017 at 8:17am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

Originally posted by 304-dude 304-dude wrote:


Still will need to order Teflon washers, as the poly grabs the metal compression washers.

i have some surplus teflon sheet, about 1/8" thick, and make washers from it with a hole saw. big hole saw first (OD) then small hole saw or Greenlee punch for the center (ID).

did the same with some Micarta sheet for suspension spacers.

That's where having a fully-equipped wood shop upstairs can be an advantage - I can work with almost any material, from pine to oak to maple to plexiglas to laminate to teflon chunks or sheets to brass, zinc (I cut my zinc bars on the table saw- sliced them to the thickness I needed for use with plating) aluminum stock, whatever. I have a good variety of blades for the band saw and scroll saw, multiple hole saws including an adjustable size hole saw, various sanders - disk and belt, etc.
I often have to clean up almost as many metal or plastic shavings and dusts as I do wood. 
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