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Mega HVAC and Cooling

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/20/2018 at 5:40pm
Things are looking wonderful... almost too good to be true.

I quickly measured the opening for mounting the radiator and found, about .750" on each side needs to cut. To open up for the 440 magnum radiator to fit along with the 2015 VW dual fan unit. Added Neoprene seal around the perimeter of the mounting flange to seal against the radiator and mounting face of the supports.

Looks at the speed control of the VW fans... nothing was done to seal against moisture. Just a wee bit of sealer at the wires, but nothing around the cover and body.

The electronics looks good, but way too many electrolytic capacitors. Since they are not military or space tech, I image 10 years of use at best here in the Mid West.  I think if one sealed it air tight, it would be fairly dependable. Just the caps will degrade over time, and allow for failure.  I guess if I wanted to, I could modify the speed control to be more robust than it is, by replacing the caps with better versions that are rated for hight temps and long life.

Now since holidays are here, I will set my notes aside to start sometime when I can so some minor mods on the radiator mounting area.

As for the A/C condenser, it needs some mods, for mounting, but until I have the radiator installed, I will not attempt to guess how far in or out, for now.

I will also tackle the adapter for AMC to Chevy R07 water pump pulley usage, without need to modify parts.


71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/25/2018 at 4:44am
edited a new fitment and pre assembly page for reference. It was a bit difficult just for a simple addition, due to new forum updates. I will hold off on any further additions, as formatting and image uploads are too difficult for simplicity with my tablet. Things can go wrong with how I edit or loose images when uploaded. We will also have to bare the wait until things sort out, so until then my updates will be very limited to just text reply entries, like this one.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/27/2018 at 5:21pm
updating with more Info... I figured a simple method to mount the Forester condenser. I removed the aluminum brackets that were screwed into the upper frame.  Will mount using flat rectangular tabs to the upper radiator support , as brackets to mount to. They will allow the upper part of the frame to mount against the upper support and allow the core to be mostly free of being blocked by the support. The bottom will mount to L brackets with a hole for the rubberised pins to seat for locating for a semi floating mount. The L brackets will mount low enough to allow the bottom of the frame to be against the lower radiator support, and keep the core free from being blocked by the support.

Even though the condenser is fitted further out than a factory setup, it won't be an issue, since I plan on sealing the gaps between condenser and support openings all the way to the radiator. Air will only pass through the condenser  before passing through the radiator. Thus making the best  efficency for keeping A/C stable in hot environments with stand still traffic. 

Using a much bigger condenser for the configuration allows for better air flow for engine cooling . 

I also cut off 3/4" from each side of the radiator mounting flanges to fit the Mopar 440 radiator's fan shroud mounting flanges to fit between for clearance.

I will trim each flange to have 1/4" width for the Audi A4 / VW Passat electric fan assembly. The factory width  covers about 3/4" of the radiator core and will also block some of the flow at the fan openings. In one of my pictures,  you can see a mounting stud poking up at the every edge of one of the fan openings.  Once trimmed down, there will be no obstruction for maximum flow.

To mount the fan assembly I will add L brackets to the sides of the raised flanges on the radiator. Once completed the radiator and fan assembly can be removed and installed as one.

I will mount the radiator using modern technique, using rubber isolators to allow a floating fit. It will keep shock from distorting the aluminum core. Many new cars utilise this for plastic radiators, and it also helps with aluminum too.

Once I am able to properly upload and utilise the forum server with my tablet, I will add more. For now,  just text updates. 
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/29/2018 at 7:47am
OK, I got to thinking again.  Ha!

As always I flip and flop with ideas in my head, and decided to utilise the dodgy VW / Audi motor control unit.

I will be sealing it air tight, and from water too! Hehehehehehe! 

As for capacitors and heat... i will be moving the unit from the main motor housing, to a cooler location, away from being sandwiched between motor and a hot radiator. Thus removing limitations in housing design and how it is emplemented. This problem has been on going for some time with VW fans, and can be cured or at least made to be more dependable.

I will try once more with posting images, so i can show some details... drum roll... Tada!





As you can see, it is a fairly well designed circuit. Having two wee wires for high / low control. May have 4 modes, off, A/C fan on high, both on low, and both on high. But won't know until I get my hands dirty.

Will build a harness for the controllers placement once I figure a good spot for it. I will remove  the pig tails and re utilise them for ease of connectivity for the fans and relays. 


Edited by 304-dude - Nov/29/2018 at 7:49am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Joined: Sep/29/2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2019 at 5:32am
Ok, I did some wee mods on the radiator mounting of the Javelin body, and did a mock fit of the 70 Polara 440 radiator and 80s Wagoneer upper hose.

I left the plastic covering on, as the test fit was almost too tight to fit for pictures. The radiator is resting at the bottom along the side support lip, part of the lower support.

As a note... the mounting flange on the passenger side of the radiaor is about 2mm too long to fit with equal spacing with material removal to the side supports. I removed about 1" from each side, thus removing the welded on square nuts and extra metal for the extra width of the radiator.

Will trim the aluminum mounting flange to fit with proper clearance to keep the radiator centered.

Here is the passenger side, notice no clearance to shift any further to center. Radiator is binding between the side supports.



Clearance with upper support



Clearance with right side support



Fit between engine... I have a segmented mandrel, which is too long by 1/2" to fit without clearance. No issues as my accessory will require less spacing any way.



Over all look with hose and A/C pump fitted.



After I done trimming, I will mount with rubber isolators at the bottom and top corners. The radiator will be semi floating. Less stress to aluminum and may save core from slight front end damage. Most modern cars have this feature with plastic and some aluminum radiators.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/24/2019 at 5:17am
I had some time, and finished trimming about 1/4" of the edges of the mounting flanges, to allow fit. The mounting slots, on the top two Dodge radiator flanges are perfect mounting points to mount, using rubber isolating bumper spacers.

To mount the isolators, I can use threaded blind rivets at the upper and lower corner mounting points. Just need to drill proper sized holes in the radiator supports and mount the blind rivets.

One reason for the tilted installation, air gap for the larger radiator core. There will be the need to tilt the radiator forward, towards the engine, away from the upper radiator support, which will block over an inch width of radiator core's length if mounted flush. This will allow for a .750" gap, and center the top more in alignment with where the oem radiatin top would be. Though the tilt would require about 10° from center line, top to bottom, and would place the bottom of the radiator against the lower radiator support.

The bottom of the radiator will be supported by another set of rubber isolators to rest the majority of the weight while being mounted facing up between the top flat of the radiator support and the radiator, using L brackets mounted to the lower part of each flange.

As for overall look, and fit, it is very clean and simple. Just had to do some trimming off some material, though use of a wheel cutter is a requirement. The top is now set as low as factory, as my mock photos are not set so deep. The bottom as slighty deeper than the bottom edge of the lower radiator support, but is not visually noticable until inspection from below. I will mount fixture tabs and straps to keep the radiator secure, if the rubber isolator spacers should fail on the upper support mounting.


Edited by 304-dude - Mar/24/2019 at 5:34am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2019 at 5:33pm
I have made up some bottom mounting brackets with rubber isolators for my Polara radiator. Below shows how they look, as i cut right angle brackets to fit in the small drip channel along each side. The drip channel will need a hole drilled for mounting the studs as pins to slightly pivot, due to the downward slope to drain fluid or water splash.



I need to drill a small hole just below the mounting hole on the bracket and radiator flange to use a sheet metal scew to lock the bracket from being pivoted along the mount hole when seated.

The old bolts, that are in place, will be replaced with a new one of proper length.

I used an extra rubber isolator to help mount the bottom isolator, as i need to order more hardware for mounting.

As for the top mounting holes, I remeasured and drilled a hole about 1 inch away from the outer two holes, whice there for the harness loopes. They perfectly align vertically with the top mounting holes on the radiator. Using my rubber isolators and mounting stud to thread them on to, will place the radiator right where it should be.

Because of the larger upper tank, the factory radiator to fender braces will need to be moved further out by 1" from their normal posistion on the upper support. I will use the existing support mounting holes for a custom radiator locating brace. Its a safety thing, in case of rubber isolator failure on the upper mounting locations.

As explained earlier, the isolated radiator mounting will protect from minor frontal impacts, that may effect support alignment.

I test fit without lower brackets installed, and loose fitted the cooling fans. There is about a safe margine of 1/2" space from the closest part of the fan assembly to the front most part of the engine accessories

A bit tight but doable. Good thing my mandrel fits with about 1-1/2" to trim off the main bolt for removing spacers and locating the cog for an external oil pump.

As for any ideas for a super charger, it will have to be 80's ricer radial style. At the bottom of the engine similar to how the external pump is fitted. I may have just enough room at the drivers side to do it.

Also i trimmed off another 3/8" off of the drivers side radiator mounting flange to open up more for centering and allow clip mounts to pass betwen for the cooling fan assembly. Basically I cut vertically just enough to cut at the rounded end of the structural regidity channels as a limit an marker points.

Minor adjustments, but things are working out. The bottom brackets will need to mount differently than expected. As I forgot to calculate drop by the new upper mounting points.

I hope to snug up the lower mounting to be closer to the lower support, right now it seems to have 3/8" gap, which makes some of the lean forward and kick out at the bottom. My top isolators are about 3/4" thick and i adjusted them with about 3/8" gap between upper support and isolator foot. Hopefully once the gaps are closed, it will place the fan shroud mounting face on the Polara radiator almost flush to the Javelin's radiator verical support.

So, expect new info on how I will sandwich the rubber isolators at the bottom for securing the radiator.

I would have completed the A/C condenser and radiator with cooling fan assembly today, but had been too busy with removal of a part for a member. Who knows when i will have enough time to work without a having an hour to work with. I feel way too rushed being set on a time constraints, and sometimes forget to grab some details, because I want to get it done ASAP.
I dont need a manager to tell me to get things done, I am already beating myself every 10 minutes, and its bloody nerve racking. At least I am not mistake prone... maybe its because I can only work so much and have plenty of time to think things over on next attempt, after clean up.



Edited by 304-dude - May/11/2019 at 7:51pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2019 at 8:03pm
Had a wee bit of time to make the 4 mounting tabs, for mounting the VW fan shroud assembly to the Polara radiator.

They compose of 1/4"-20 threaded blind rivets mount threaded end outward, as to retain a rubber bush and limit fastener travel and pressure to the plastic mounting tabs of the shroud. I used a P style faucet washer to create a flanged bushing to cushion the fan shroud. It sets a wee past the threaded end of the blind rivet. They will compress when fastened and allow the rivet to poke through the mounting hole and stop the fastener from being too tight against the shroud's plastic tabs. I cut the L brackets to a proper size, from a larger sized beam joiner. The brackets cost $1.50 each to make, and will do the job nicely.




I slightly modified my rubber washer install. I trimmed off some of the base to allow for the blind rivet to protrude a wee bit. It will allow easier indexing during installation, and will keep the washer from binding from tightening down, before the fastener is seated against the stud.



Edited by 304-dude - Jun/01/2019 at 6:16am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
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Joined: Sep/29/2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/01/2019 at 4:55pm
Almost done with radiator and fan shroud assembly... about 90%, and it fits like a glove. Installed the radiator and shroud as an assembly. Though the shroud can be installed and removed while the radiator is in place.

Key details... there is about 3/8" gap from fan shroud and side radiator supports. Also the radiator is pretty much centered both vertically and horizontally. There is a 1-1/4" gap between upper radiator support and the top front tank. The bottom tank is resting against the lower radiator support, with oem splash guard sandwitched in between.

I took out the tilt, so it mounts straight up. Due to the compressor having top mounted service valves, i had to install the radiator hose in reverse. I have yet to cut to fit.

Here are some pix... i still am yet to straighten the fins from rubs. So don't cringe.







Note, i will remove a small section at the bottom mounting frame on the radiator. It needs to be cut at the lower mounting hole for proper install of the bottom rubber isolator and its mounting bracket. The isolator is shown next to the area to be cut.

Edited by 304-dude - Jun/01/2019 at 5:42pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PABLO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/05/2019 at 11:00am
Hi, 
It looks great. Fantastic job I´ll keep it on my long wish list. 
bye
1973 JAVELIN AMX 360 AUTO
EUROPE (SPAIN)
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