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Mega HVAC and Cooling

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2018 at 10:36am
Originally posted by CamJam CamJam wrote:

Ah yes… much better!! I had the same puzzlement originally and just assumed it was over my head. Five seconds of glancing at the new diagram and I could easily understand the principle. Well done.



Your welcome, and once I got done yesterday, I started thinking deeper in universal simplification for everyone. As my fan and shroud choice are dual speed, trying to make my design fit with single speed fans can be tricky to others. So I gave up on using the circuit to fit the perpose of controlling dual speed fans directly at their proper connections. It may add to the complexity of the circuit, but it will be an over looked benefit, that most won't see, unless using their own fan's low speed connection, after time.

Not many request much from my threads, and when I do get input from others it greatly appreciated. Though, my mind set us on what I intend to do for my one application, I hope it helps with others who may be looking at similar options, for themselves.

Mostly, all I can expect others to get from my threads, is to get them thinking. if they are in the process of change, or identifying ongoing issues under certain circumstances.

Now, what to do with my two disconnected low speed wires for the fans connection? Maybe I will get fancy an use a frequency counter and detect fan rotation speed by the pulses generated by the field while in operation. The each fan's internal resistor should allow pass for detecting. Geezo! Like I have done enough already, I don't need to make it into my suspension mod. Who knows how much more I may change or add before I am done with cooling fans. HA!



Edited by 304-dude - Oct/23/2018 at 10:39am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2018 at 12:42pm
I updated my opening page with the full details of the circuit operation. Also fixed a wee error, that I over looked when reorganising the layout to be easier to read. It was minor but it did keep the A/C fan from becoming active when A/C pressure becomes too great. The fan is to help the condenser under such need.

I will be devoting my time into putting things together, and when I find something to add, in my progression, I will update further.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2018 at 1:15pm
Nice! Better control strategy is so much nicer to drive and puts less wear and tear on everything. My 99 Jeep has some dumb and dumber modes and some were corrected in 2k but they are still dingbat operations. Modern thinking and PWM are good to think about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2018 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Jmerican Jmerican wrote:

Nice! Better control strategy is so much nicer to drive and puts less wear and tear on everything. My 99 Jeep has some dumb and dumber modes and some were corrected in 2k but they are still dingbat operations. Modern thinking and PWM are good to think about.


Thank you.

My main reasoning for doing this, and all my other mods, is not to ever deal with them later on. I thought to share this with others who may need to sort out things, or are planing on a street / strip car and may want to be prepared for additional cooling or A/C to be operating optimally.

I consider the info an addition to white70javelinsst's A/C in a 70 thread, Farna's Ford electric fan and Chrysler condenser info, along with Billd's various bits on electricals, of which all this thread is to tie bits and pieces into one.




Edited by 304-dude - Nov/07/2018 at 6:25pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/04/2018 at 5:54am
I may be blowing a bit of hot air, but I think there is some changes I need to consider. After checking into 2003 on up automobile A/C systems, I have noticed other differences from the old stock R12 setups that can be utilised further with my A/C system upgrade.

I will update my second page, once I get more info on what parts need to be changed in my selection. Right now as it stands, my Range Rover / Discovery II dryer may only be good for its bracket. Here is the reasons why I am making a turn of direction.

To utilise a trinary switch, the pressure at the switch must be equal or very very close to the pressure at the discharge port hose. Since many condensers have proper length and width, here are differences in how they are made and function.

I noticed many condenser cores are less than 3/4" thick. Until you get into Chevy Camaro, Vette, along with most all makes of heavy duty / fleet & SUV / Truck units. Another issue is fittings. Not that quick connect, block or O-ring have disadvantages between each other. It that if going O-ring, you cannot properly utilise a trinary A/C pressure switch with input and output mismatched, unless you add the trinary switch before the condenser.

Since I plan on using a dryer / receiver, no universal system (#8 / #6) will be considered, unless tube size allows replacement of the output fitting to match input fitting size without flow restriction. Many newer (after 2004) condenser to dryer configurations have the large port before the dryer output. So, my configuration will be #8 from discharge to condenser to dryer. My condenser will be no less than 3/4" thick as well.

Once I have a proper condenser dryer combo selected, I will adjust my 2nd page accordingly. Though the 2nd page will work without concern if not using a trinary switch or changing it's location to the input side of the condenser.

I did a bit of looking and found that 2002 is the cut off for parts exchange. Condensers now have tanks as part of the unit. Connections limit use of simplicity, and adds additional cost.

Basically I am modernising and carefully selecting best methods for my configuration, while keeping the O-ring system in place.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/04/2018 at 9:12am
Great Thread 304-dude!
Thank you, very nicely done!
71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/04/2018 at 10:05am
Originally posted by jpnjim jpnjim wrote:

Great Thread 304-dude!
Thank you, very nicely done!




Thank you... though being a bugger, since I am stuffing the biggest cooling system one could fit in a big body, I will be trying to fit over the counter OEM parts.

So far with a Sanden SD508 compressor, I am going to reverse connect another make discharge line. I looked at a Saturn SL1 line but it was made to push through #6 hose and fittings.

Once I obtain and try out a #8 sized line along with the condenser I plan on fitting, I hope to make everything fit with minor mods, and no custom hoses. Though I have a feeling the output will need a brazed #8 fitting because there may be no choices for a #8 O-ring hard line terminated with a block fitting.

It is interesting on the available lines and A/C parts still available through so many years. Though one must keep in mind pre 97 is still R12, so lines for discharge will be limited to 97 to 00, on the fitting required. Thus most all the main A/C components at the front of the car are 97 to 2002.

Sorry it is taking me a long time, but there are so many configurations, and possibilities, that it is like creating a Picasso with a mix of 3 or 4 jigsaw puzzles. They will fit in some way, and work just fine together.

Of all things, the whole system should be simple to install and function under the highest demands.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/05/2018 at 5:52am
I got down to the nitty gritty... seems as long as I keep with the plan of mixing Japanese / Korean block fittings, I will be OK. They are standard between the makes and some cross reference between other car manufacturers. Ford, GM, Dodge, German, and Italian car A/C components don't mix.

Looks at some promising lines, so the block fittings on the condenser of choice are not an issue, and no brazing required.

The only issue is the dryer and it's location. Few if any lines allow pass through in the proper orientation for the line to clear through the head lamp harness port of the elephant ear, or between radiator and along the support side.

No matter if you use a factory style or some other make dryer, you will need to cut off the unused end and replace with the proper fitting, and be sure to leave proper length to rout to your dryer.

Once I have made a final decision on which parts I will use, the only main concern for using a smaller condenser is that you may need to use a different line than what I chose, for its longer length.

I may post some optional lines for just that.

So, to cut it all down to a wee list, the only mods I have to do, is to swap out one end on the condenser to dryer line, and make a custom adapter for the stock fitting of the factory line from the dryer to the expansion valve at the evaporator.

Small tweaks to the block ends of the condenser can be done as the inputs are strut reinforced pipe. So simple unbolting the strut from he block or frame can allow bending to conform to the line angles better.

As for the line pass through, a service hole may be added depending on clearance needs. It's location if needed, is determined by dryer location or the dryer used.

A factory dryer can be mounted but not on the condenser, as it has no provisions for it.


Edited by 304-dude - Nov/05/2018 at 5:55am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2018 at 5:51am
Updates to my info... added another page.

Awaiting some parts to build my circuit and LED dimmer switch mod to keep my brain active during the winter. Ha!
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/06/2018 at 2:31pm
Y tho.

I drove my 1977 Hornet in Phoenix, which is just about the hottest most disgusting hellhole on Earth and I don't understand why anybody would live there unless they were forced to as some form of inhumane punishment. It's so hot there that the water from the "cold" water taps runs hot and the water from the "hot" water taps is barely hotter. You literally need oven mitts to open your car door. 

But I did it. With a stock Hornet. I tinted the windows with 35% VLT film and I could keep it 75 degrees inside the car on a 110 degree day. Keep in mind I worked in a non-air conditioned shop for 8 hours a day, and that my house was never colder than 75, so driving home in that car at 75 degrees felt pretty darn cold. 

Never overheated the engine either. Just a stock radiator with a stock shroud and stock 7-blade flex fan. 70 MPH on the city freeways or 5 MPH on the city freeways, depending on how unlucky I was that day. I drove 70 miles a day like that.

So why is all this other stuff necessary? 


Edited by FSJunkie - Nov/06/2018 at 2:36pm
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited
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