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Long/short shaft water pumps

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george w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote george w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/25/2014 at 7:16pm
Ross,

I'm not sure what the Ambo has but my guess is the long shaft pump. Please set a pully-spacer kit aside as I'll want to change it over. No sense keeping the long shaft pump if the pump has to be changed. I also have at least one original pump off my AMX ( I think ) that has a worn bearing. Where do you suggest I send it to have it rebuilt ?
BTW, here's the compression readings I took before your soaking: # 1=80
#2=90, #3=80, #4=85. #5=85, #6=110, #7=75, #8=75
Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/26/2014 at 7:45am
My response to this I did not realize there 3 size shafts, but only two.  Which makes no difference to me at this point in time.  Some where around 1996 my 70' 390 which had a tendency to run warm got worse when I moved to Phoenix AZ where it was 100 degrees + during the day for about 1/3 of the year.  The fact that it had the original radiator in it at the time and that was the reason it was running warm, a factoid that you generally do not want to acknowledge that a 35 year old radiator was at the end of it's life and was probably largely plugged which at the time that was probably the real problem.  But FLOWKOOLER had announced the availability of one of their water pumps for AMC V8's. Two of them if my memory serves at the time. One for early engines, the other for late engines with 1970 being the dividing point.  So I ordered one and when it came I was excited and installed it.  During the installation I discovered that the thing was indexed differently causing a problem in re-routing the heater hose. And only after it was installed noting that fan belt alignment was no longer correct.  Which meant that what ever the deal was I had the wrong pump. Mine was aluminum and the proper pump was cast iron.  I think that it was for the late model motor, but in any case having gone through the work to install it I was determined to see if it would work.
It did, it still does some 30 or 40 thousand miles later. I could have removed the pulley and using a hydraulic press gently reconfigured the depth of the pump, something commonly done when needed, but I never had to deal with it.  The fan belt stayed on. As to the pump, my memory also seems to remember (at the time and I do not know now) that Flowkoolers application chart was wrong as to which pump they made should have worked.  And again at the time due to lack of interest I guess they stopped making one model and only offered one pump for AMC V8's. Did it work? Yup and I would buy another but have not needed to. Did it solve my over heating problem? Yup, but it still ran hot-ish untilkj my now older radiator sprun a leak and I bought a new one from Kennedy which he advertized as being larger capacity and it was. About another gallon larger. That solved the rest of the problem so now stuck in traffic on a 120 degree day it sits at about 145 degrees idling. I can deal with that, as now the tune does not shift around due to ambient temperatures. 
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67 Marlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 Marlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/18/2017 at 11:17pm
Here's a comparison of my original pulley (notice the long shaft water pump that the PO replaced on my 1967 343) with a short pulley I sourced from the man himself Ross Peterson. Hope this helps someone that comes across this thread. I know it's a couple years old, but these pulleys are way older than that, so it works for me Cool


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Mitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/21/2017 at 12:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Mitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/21/2017 at 1:01pm
I have modified several long pumps to short by moving the flange with a shop press.  Both are working well.  Just be careful and don't move it too far.  Cool  Don't know how to move it back.  Ha, ha.
Bill Mitchell

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mantonas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2022 at 7:17am
To quote 69 ambassador 390:


"68 to 71/72?  short style.
73 and up is the medium style."

I'm trying to sort out a 72 Javelin. The original engine is gone and the one in there now is a 73, I think. Definitely 73 or later. I would like to stick with the 73 or later water pump because there are so many more choices, and I also want to retain the post-73 pulley setup. However I can see that the car was designed to have the shorter water pump; the fan is so close to the radiator that I had to bend the radiator at the supports away from the fan slightly just to get the fan off the water pump hub.

I'm interested in the difference in the flange to hub distance between the short and medium style water pumps. Does anybody know what those distances are?
1972 AMC Javelin SST
1973 AMC Ambassador 401
1975 AMC Pacer D/L
1976 AMC Pacer X
1976 AMC Matador sedan
1978 AMC Pacer V8 coupe
1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2022 at 7:28am
I have a sort of NOS long shaft pump. It is a remanufacture from back when they were easily available at the parts stores. It has been sitting on the shelf for gotta be 30 years.

What is it worth, and I should put in for sale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2022 at 7:58am
Originally posted by mantonas mantonas wrote:

To quote 69 ambassador 390:


<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; : rgb248, 248, 252;">"68 to 71/72?  short style.<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; : rgb248, 248, 252;">73 and up is the medium style."<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; : rgb248, 248, 252;">
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; : rgb248, 248, 252;">I'm trying to sort out a 72 Javelin. The original engine is gone and the one in there now is a 73, I think. Definitely 73 or later. I would like to stick with the 73 or later water pump because there are so many more choices, and I also want to retain the post-73 pulley setup. However I can see that the car was designed to have the shorter water pump; the fan is so close to the radiator that I had to bend the radiator at the supports away from the fan slightly just to get the fan off the water pump hub.<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; : rgb248, 248, 252;">
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; : rgb248, 248, 252;">I'm interested in the difference in the flange to hub distance between the short and medium style water pumps. Does anybody know what those distances are?


To use a later pump, you must use a late water pump pulley. Every thing else will properly align. Quite a few have done that out of simplicity for obtaining parts over the counter. Which seems to be your case.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mantonas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2022 at 8:45am
I can see how the later pulleys might offset the length of the longer water pump in terms of belt alignment, but this doesn't help the fan being too close to the radiator. Who knows, maybe it has the wrong radiator in it or the wrong fan clutch.

This is why I like cars which have not been modified by anyone else before I get them, but that doesn't seem to be an option for a cheapskate like me to buy a Javelin!
1972 AMC Javelin SST
1973 AMC Ambassador 401
1975 AMC Pacer D/L
1976 AMC Pacer X
1976 AMC Matador sedan
1978 AMC Pacer V8 coupe
1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2022 at 8:59am
Originally posted by mantonas mantonas wrote:

I can see how the later pulleys might offset the length of the longer water pump in terms of belt alignment, but this doesn't help the fan being too close to the radiator. Who knows, maybe it has the wrong radiator in it or the wrong fan clutch.

This is why I like cars which have not been modified by anyone else before I get them, but that doesn't seem to be an option for a cheapskate like me to buy a Javelin!


if you have air conditioning, you have a fan spacer that is fairly long, and will need some trimming. If not, the original spacer will be fine. I vaguely remember removing fan and pully without pulling radiator on my AC equiped Javelin, it was a bit difficult because of the spacer length. Fortunatly my hands and thin open end wrench were able to do the job, but barely. From that, it may be possible to use an AC spacer, if radiator is out, when installing the pulky and fan. Though the heads on the cap screws could possibly rub.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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