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Lifter Noise at Start-Up

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will333 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will333 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lifter Noise at Start-Up
    Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:20pm
I believe this is a typical issue with AMC 390's...upon cold start-ups the lifters make noise, maybe a second or two, until oil pressure is up, which on my car is about 45 lbs at idle and 60 under load. Can anyone recommend an oil additive that can decrease the wear that must be happening on these starts?
1968 AMX 390 Automatic
Turbo Silver / Red Command Station Interior
"The Orbiter"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whizkidder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:37pm
Use a filter like a PF24 with a good anti-drainback valve.

Over time, the valve spring pressure forces the lifter plungers to leak down, creating excess valve clearance at the rockers. All that's required is enough oil to re-fill the lifter bores when the engine cranks and the valves go shut -- as you say, usually after the pressure comes up.

A PF 24 will reduce the time needed for the oil pump to fill the filter, so the pressure will come up much quicker.
Ron Frost
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:45pm
Unfortunately it is a typical problem.

But the real culprit is usually the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter. The AMC filter is positioned sideways and over time on shutdown the oil will drain back into the sump. When you restart the pump must refill the filter, then it can fill the lifters. During shutdown over time those where the valves were open have leaked down. So the lifters make noise until they fill.

If the filter was already full this is essentially instant, no noise.

Of course the factory engineers new this and there is a 1-way flapper valve in the filter to prevent the leakdown.

The problem is replacement filter quality. I've never seen an orange filter where the valve actually works. I've tried a number of brands with minimal success. Tried the Napa Gold (Wix I'm told) long filter that is actually a Pontiac filter and it does not even have a valve. The current proper AMC (unfortunately short) filter has a valve, but even the NAPA gold only works about 25% of the time. I'm told a Delco filter is OK, but I have not tried so I can't verify.

The late AMC's after Chrysler bought them converted to the Chrysler filter, a simple change of the threaded adapter, and that is also the same as the Ford, which uses a long filter with a valve. Lot's of Ford filters are mounted sideways and preventing leakback is good for them. With the Ford filter so common there is much better selection of good quality brands. Never the Orange one (Thanks Dave, that's a nice way of putting it).

I now convert everything to Ford filters and have had much better luck with filter quality. Now my Rambler rarely rattles the lifters and bearings on cold start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BDCVG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:54pm
This is an issue in My Ferrari 328 too, over in that forum a member did quite extensive testing on alot of oil filters. The Ferrari filter mounts upside down on top of the motor so drainback out of the filter is an absolute no-no. Baldwin makes filters that are suberb for anti-drainback, the amc v-8 # for My amx is B9. I usually can get them from truck supply/repair houses for about 12$ . The Fram failed most of the tests done to it usually because They have switched to paper end caps on the element which allow the element to colapse under pressure. The Napa gold filters worked pretty good but by far the Baldwin was best. I can't remember about purolator.

Edited by BDCVG - Apr/12/2012 at 12:57pm
1965 Austin-Healey 3000
1970 AMX 390
1986 Ferrari 328 GTB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will333 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:56pm
Okay, so can someone recommend a filter that will do the job? I'm currently using a Purolater L30005. I checked the PF24 filter, which is AC Delco, the site I found it on says it will not fit an AMC 390.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BDCVG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:58pm
Baldwin B9
1965 Austin-Healey 3000
1970 AMX 390
1986 Ferrari 328 GTB
2005 Subaru RS25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BDCVG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 1:01pm
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195878&highlight=baldwin
Here is one of the posts from the Ferrari forum.
1965 Austin-Healey 3000
1970 AMX 390
1986 Ferrari 328 GTB
2005 Subaru RS25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will333 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 1:03pm
Thanks for that BDCVG. You must have posted just as I was following up with my question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BDCVG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 1:04pm
As far as an additive the Rislone ZDDP adds 1500 ppm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whizkidder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by will333 will333 wrote:

I checked the PF24 filter, which is AC Delco, the site I found it on says it will not fit an AMC 390.


Summit Racing lists the PF 24 as fitting all AMC V8s from 1966 to 1979 -- 287 to 401.

I've had several screwed onto my '70 390, with no issues -- ever.

Ron Frost
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"There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague
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