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Incompatible 232 fuel pumps |
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tomj 
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539 |
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 Topic: Incompatible 232 fuel pumpsPosted: Jul/18/2020 at 4:44pm |
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WTF, over $200 into this pump, literally the moment I go to bolt this on, I find this. The one on the left just came out of my 1968 199ci six. The one on the right, the part number comes up as 1966 232:  Both are Carter. Both have 80-262 on top. Both are identical side by side, except the reversed mount pattern. Now I'm totally confused about this bolt pattern, and levers under the cam and over the cam. I should have seen this from outside, but it's visually confusing to me when on the bench. Does anyone have any idea WTF is going on? Sheesh what a PITA this fuel pump business is. The one on the right was a NOS pump in an AMC carton and tag, sent to Arthur Gould Rebuilders. It's as perfect as a fuel pump can be, ethanol ready etc. Clearly it will be for sale later. Edited by tomj - Jul/18/2020 at 4:46pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Heavy 488
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Joined: Apr/27/2019 Location: In the Status: Offline Points: 3552 |
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Posted: Jul/18/2020 at 5:58pm |
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Maybe a clearance issue in another body for them to flip the pump. 180 degrees.
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wittsend
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Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 420 |
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Posted: Jul/18/2020 at 9:43pm |
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I assume there is a need for the vacuum wipers. But I'm thinking it can't be too hard to adapt an electric wipe motor. I'm done with mechanical fuel pumps. Electric pumps solve a number of problems. I've put a few of the Chinese $15 pumps in my cars and not an issue after 2 years.
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'63 American Hardtop
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tomj
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Posted: Jul/18/2020 at 11:52pm |
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No, you guys missed it -- the diamond mounting pattern is upside-down.
Vacuum wipers, they need the pump. Electrics aren't better. I use a little $35 Carter pump on the roadster, back at the tank pushing. It's great. I don't think the lever installs to ride on the top of the cam. Is there even room? Then the two pumps (fuel, vacc) would be reversed. The AMC box says Group 4.110 317 3221 of course the wrong pump could have been put in in the box in 1967 or last year. A forum member gave me the pump. I'm certainly not faulting their generosity here! Really. But by all indications, and I really did look it all up before I went through all this trouble, it's a 66 232ci pump. Edited by tomj - Jul/18/2020 at 11:59pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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First_Gear
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Joined: Jan/18/2010 Location: Mukilteo WA Status: Offline Points: 644 |
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Posted: Jul/19/2020 at 1:14am |
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Ok.. I have a guess as to what is going on here. I have a 232 pump. Carter Unsure of year but my car is a 66. I also have in my possession a pump from a V8 engine around the same year. Both are for vacuum wipers. The body of the pumps are identical EXCEPT the diamond is upside down on the V8 pump and the actuating lever is different. My guess is that it was accidentally installed with the wrong middle part or wrong actuating lever at the carter factory and put on the shelf when it was discovered that it was unusable. I have gotten so many NOS parts that had some kind of manufacturing flaw. It seems theres always some reason it never got used.
Edited by First_Gear - Jul/19/2020 at 1:18am |
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pacerman
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Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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Posted: Jul/19/2020 at 11:42am |
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Maybe it's just the way try to do things, but I would try the one on the right and see if it works. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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First_Gear
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Posted: Jul/19/2020 at 2:14pm |
It would not work because mounted upside down the lever would be in the wrong position to engage the cam. I would say about 20% of NOS parts that I have gotten have had some kind of manufacturer's defect rendering them useless. I would try to swap the middle assembly from the one on the left to the one on the right. I would think this would solve all the problems..
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tomj
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Posted: Jul/19/2020 at 10:40pm |
This. I had all of these pumps all at the same time, lined up, and somehow my brain didn't see the inversion. I'm gonna call the rebuilders, not to complain, but to inquire. They see a lot of pumps maybe they'll have some insight. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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pacerman
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Posted: Jul/20/2020 at 12:03am |
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I have several six cylinder 195.6 and 232 pumps here at home. Many of them are "inverted" like the one on the right. I think you guys are making a mountain out of a very small hill. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
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Posted: Jul/20/2020 at 6:05pm |
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OK Joe, you get the last laugh. In my defense, the new pump is literally upside down, AND backwards, from the old pump. I had to re-clock the pump, the inlet was towards the front of the car. If I accept that the bowl is upside down -- open end down -- then it will fit in the hole (and needs new vacuum and fuel hose plumbing). Oriented to the engine the way that the casting demands, the
fuel pump is at the top. The pump doesn't care, but the filter bowl does
-- sediment will collect inside the pump mechanism and not in the bowl
like it is designed to. This seems dumb, since they had it right the first time. So when I change the filter, the bowl dumps on the ground, great. Maybe it will drain back to the tank if I'm parked level. Or was common at the time, simply never change the fuel filter. There is quite an assortment of pumps for the two AMC sixes. I have 195.6 lhead and ohv blocks here. I can verify that only "lever over cam" will even fit in the block -- the main oil gallery occludes the lever hole. The pump now installed and running in my 199 is lever-under. But I have a 1980 or 1983 pump that I ran in my 1970 232, and it is lever-over. Joe, or anyone, have you seen dual-action pumps with fuel bowl on top, inverted? With the bowl bail on top? (I have a dual-action pump from one of my 195.6 OHVs that is fuel-on-top, but the glass bowl mounts underneath.) Edited by tomj - Jul/20/2020 at 6:54pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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pacerman wrote: