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Hub issues |
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fmahannah
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/20/2010 Location: Dahlonega, GA Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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Yes please do have the hubs pulled and marked. I replied to your PM. My pullers apparently are noy American steel LOL. I am putting a twin-grip in it along with 3.55 gears Thanks!
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74 Javelin AKA Ghost
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Not at all. Generally, you find only one side has the problem. Of all the AMCs I've worked on over the decades, I've yet to see a car with BOTH axles spun in the hubs. The key is NOT (I cannot stress this enough!) NOT what holds the hub in position. The key is ONLY a locator when the hub is put back on the axle during normal seal or bearing service. The key has NOTHING to do with the hub staying on the axle. The splines and taper do all of the work. If the splines let loose, that key WILL shear because it has no holding power at all. It's too small. In fact, it's not any larger than the keys used to locate the flywheel on some small engines. To summarize - The key is to locate, not hold. The key helps you put the hub back on the same axle in the EXACT same position, ensuring the splines engage as they did from the factory. This is one reason AMC didn't want you to put a used hub on a different axle - the splines won't engage exactly the same and you weaken things (or risk doing so, no guarantees either way) The splines and taper hold the hub tight to the axle. If one has gone south, yes, you should check the torque and status of the other side, but I have yet to see BOTH sides gone, normally one goes and has taken all the stresses that caused it to go in the first place. Typically things go south on these because:
Someone messed up on a prior service........ Someone put a used hub on an axle - risky but can actually succeed if the TSM is followed 100% The car was under a high-torque situation and that wheel suddenly found absolute traction......... BAM. (this is why generally one side goes and not the other) |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19677 |
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Just to add a little to Bill's excellent answer: 1) A factory new hub has NO splines inside. It is slightly softer than the hardened axle. Splines are formed in the hub when it is first bolted to the axle, which is why there is a "stick out" measurement for initial installation (or installing a new hub on a used axle). I've never bothered with the stick-out measurement when putting a previously installed hub back on an axle, just torqued it down. With a new hub you may need to exceed the factory recommended 250 ft/lbs of torque to get the stick-out right. Once the stick-out is correct with a new hub the axle nut should be loosened then torqued back down. It's still a good idea to check the stick-out, but it should be correct as long as the hub is returned to the axle it came from. 2) Bill's last reason for a hub slipping is why most only spin the right hub. Open diff, all power goes to the spinning wheel. When it suddenly finds traction... Once one has spun it slips, and an open diff will give the slipping wheel most of the power. It's possible to spin both, but you'd have to be running a spool or a locker. I'm not sure a locked up limited slip would do it, but might. It would be possible to spin both if one wheel suddenly caught traction and spun then the other did the same before you let off the gas. Possible, but not likely. Once one spins you'd know something was wrong and let off the gas. On a drag strip the car would start to go sideways as one wheel started slipping, not a situation to keep your foot down! A rock crawler could get into such a situation, maybe... 3) Hubs spin due to age as well. In the last 2-3 years I have had several people report spun hubs on even 196 powered 63-64 Classics. People aren't banging on them, they are just over 50 years old! AMC didn't spec a re-torque interval as the cars really weren't intended to be around more than about 10 years/100K miles. 20 years/150K would probably be a good re-torque interval. Of course by then you'd have had to replace outer bearings and/or seals if the car was in regular use. At that point it's Bill's #1 reason for spinning a hub -- axle nut wasn't torqued properly (messed up on a prior service) or could be #2 - used hub or got the hubs reversed (which I guess would be "messed up"...). Bottom line is if you have a 60s or even 70s car and not sure if the hubs have ever been off it's a good idea to loosen the axle nut and tighten back down to 250-300 ft/lbs. Factory says 250, 300 shouldn't hurt, but don't go overboard. More will just put additional stress on the end of the axle. In the mid 80s someone at AMC messed up and doubled the torque -- 500 ft/lbs -- for a few months of production. 2+ years later some Eagles started breaking axles in the center of the hub. Still run across one of those on rare occasion. More isn't always better!!
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Frank Swygert
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6884 |
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A day at the track;
- take a run , win but spin the hub. Know what happened but no time to fix it so you take your big johnson bar out and heave ho on the axle nut. - holds for a run or two - decide to do the same johnson bar on the other side when it slips - holds for years and never looked back I've seen two before and know how they got that way. Also know what the key does and a taper fit does. So is the AMC axle Jacobs, Morris or custom??? Wow, it's Morse and not Morris and no-one jumped in 10 minutes??? Can't even set myself up!
Edited by Trader - Jun/25/2018 at 7:20am |
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