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Holley carb on my Gremlin

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blumontag View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blumontag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2015 at 8:24am
Originally posted by tsanchez tsanchez wrote:

You just need to adjust the carb you have, need to verify that is has stock jetting and someone didnt reduce the jet size, the reason it stalls when cold is lean mixture and cold intake. The size of carb has little to do with how it idles, I ran a 4412 on a turbo vw and it ran perfect. Turn mixture screws out 1 full turn each to start and see if it is better, assuming the mixture was adjusted to begin with.


Started with simple step...turned out mixture screws a bit (after turning them in to gauge their current position, which was about one and one quarter). Much better at one and three quarters out. Also upped the idle a touch. It's about 800 in park, 600 in gear with brake on with engine fully warmed. 
72 Gremlin X
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2015 at 10:19pm
tsanchez wrote:

The size of carb has little to do with how it idles,


Actually this statement is not even close to correct.
The size of carb when it is the wrong size has everything to do with low rpm performance.

It is the air flow through the carburetor that meters the fuel it dispenses and all kinds of driveability problems can be incurred when the wrong size is used.
When the carburetor is too big, the air flow through based on how it is metered is too little.

I ran a 750CFM AFB on small six and yes it idles "ok" and I could get around things, and it ran oh so much better when I got the right size AFB.

That one worked out of the box and I did not have to screw with it.

So if you have the choice, get one that is the right size. Or be willing to put up with some crutches to have it run "ok".

Or

be able to implement the crutches.

GM put a 760 CFM Quadrajet on the 230 Cu In Overhead Cam engine in the Pontiacs, but they had Rochester Products behind getting it tweaked to work. And a Quadrajet has a LOT tweakability.

Most of the Carburetors in use these days have Factory Owners Manuals floating around on line that can be down loaded and used for informational purposes. Like for adjusting and tuning.
I have one for every carburetor I own, along with a 1976 manual that lets me chase wiring Problems out. AMC used a lot of GM wiring and GM covered it better. I also have a 1976 Chrysler Manual which does a good job of covering the ThermOquad, which after all was a MOPAR design and I am using that on the V8 engine in my Hornet. Boy howdie that is a well designed but complex carburetor. And I picked up a spare one for parts that last was on an international V8.
And when you go through those manuals they will cover the problems that can be had when a carburetor is miss-applied. And why!

70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blumontag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2015 at 10:57pm
I replied to the local Craigslist ad for the Holley 350...asked if it was stock or he had changed
anything . Waiting for reply. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2015 at 9:25am
The 500 cfm 2-bbl shouldn't be as big as we think, due to the difference in dP that Holley uses to rate 2-bbl carbs versus 4-bbl carbs.

But, it's got the same throttle bore size as a 750 cfm vacuum secondary (1.688" bore). That's a good indicator of the size of dry air slug that you need to compensate for with the accelerator pump tuning.

I've tuned the 600 cfm vacuum secondary (1.563" throttle bore) to run well on 258's lots of times, but the jump to larger bores might make it really tough. The pop and stumble on initial acceleration are going to be related to the accelerator pump shot volume and timing.

The cold start and warmup issues are fixed via choke adjustment, assuming you also make sure the idle mixture is adjusted correctly.

I would also look into your ignition timing. You probably need to run more initial advance than you have now, and a more aggressive advance curve. Both will help here and make more power for you.

If you can get the 350 I'd do it though as it seems a much better fit. It uses a 1.500" throttle bore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blumontag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2015 at 10:21am
Thanks. I've made minor adjustments to the idle mixture, and the choke. Definite improvement so far. After the choke is fully opened , I kick the pedal and it comes to 800 rpm idle. I can now put it into gear without stalling, and drive as  the engine warms up. Outdoor temps about 60. Might wait longer if temps are cooler.
   I realize my lower rpm street cruising  with this setup will not allow for great gas mileage. And, if I stomp on the pedal I will still get the "gulp" bog before it recovers. Short of changing the carb, we can certainly live with it…and it is fun feeling that low end torque kick in when you accelerate.
  One reply to this thread suggested switching the vac advance hose over to manifold vacuum port on the carb…anyone else think that might improve things?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramblin64sw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2015 at 11:11am
I think it depends on where your throttle blades are now at idle. If they are into the transfer slots, running manifold vacuum will increase your timing at idle, thus raising RPM's, allowing you to close your throttle blades to where they should be. How many turns out is your idle screw?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2015 at 7:10pm
We'll, we may as well take a shot at tuning it a bit then if you're going to be driving on it until you can come up with a smaller replacement.

What is the Holley list number on the carburetor? It's stamped on the choke horn - should be something like 0-4412C.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tached_out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2015 at 7:12pm
That was me that recommended you switch the distributor vacuum to non-ported. 

The best way to get an understanding of this sort of thing is to TRY IT. It requires no tools and only a few seconds of your time.

You should get a substantial increase in idle speed. Just close the curb idle speed screw to get back to the rpm you want. Readjust the mixture screws for the best vacuum reading (or best quality idle). The result will be a STRONGER idle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blumontag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2015 at 8:53pm
Yes, it's 4412-C.

Just took this photo...am I wrong or is the hose to distributor attached to a manifold port, under the choke housing?  The ported vac  is capped, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firefly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2015 at 12:46pm
Always use manifold vacuum. The lowest on the carb.
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