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Help with 1970 Javelin restore

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walkergetx View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote walkergetx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Help with 1970 Javelin restore
    Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 3:18pm
Restoring this with my 15 year old son.  I have some basic bodywork (filler and sanding) experience and I have done a little basic mechanic work.  There is very little rust on this car, so we decided to take it on.  

The one area of rust that must be repaired is the battery area.  The rot includes the entire lower radiator support and some of the sub frame. This is going to be my first foray in automotive welding, so any suggestions that might make this easier would be great (I don't even own a welding machine yet). What parts can I get? Does anyone remake that radiator support or a patch panel? How should I attack the subframe? Thanks in advance.  


 




  
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jcisworthy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 3:50pm
I would suggest a mig welder with a gas set up. You can make templates with cardboard and transfer shapes to the metal when you get to that point. 18 gauge metal should be plenty thick enough. Adjust the welder with a test piece of the metal you are going to use so it welds with a good bead then it is set for the car. Not very tricky pieces to make you should be able to achieve good results even with no experience just practice on scraps until you feel comfortable. Lower radiator support, cut off the flat panel that is rotten and make one piece to replace, drill or punch holes in new piece every 1- 1.5" or so and plug weld it back in place. If you really want to get particular count the number of spot welds from the factory and note the spacing when you cut it apart and you have the number of plug welds for your new patch. 
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scott View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:00pm
Check out Dave's thread on his 70 Javelin rehab. He tackles very similar problems to yours.  Click here: http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-70-javelin-street-car-restore_topic11725.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:12pm

WOW I would say you got them pictures from my site of my 70 Javelin street car!

You can check with the AMC venders for the lower rad support as they where made at one time. I say where because the guy doing them passed away and I dont know if anyone picked it up.

The same guy also made the batt. tray that bolts to the flat part of the inner fender well, see if you can get that too as you will need that. That is what I did for support & tray a year or 2 before he passed.

 

Now on to the fun part of that flat part the tray bolts to & the frame.

You might want to post a want add for the flat part (maybe the other parts above too?) but most are as bad as yours. My fix for both parts (frame & flat tray area) was to make them from flat sheet metal (batt tray area) and thicker flat stock for the frame.

The frame I used the other side to make patters from and used the bottom to bend the bottom part. Kind of like a press, clamped 1 end and worked the metal to the other following the shape.

The tray area I made a pattern of what I wanted to replace then transferred it to sheet metal. To bend it I used the edge of a hospital bed table, makes for a great work bench next to the car, has wheels and goes up & down so tools etc are at the right height. The edges are not that square but you bend a little, move it ¼” bend , move, etc working it a little at a time till you have the right bends. A fench post may also work as that looks like the right dia. But I did not have any around.

Check out my pictures so you can see how I did it as I think it will help a lot. Sorry they are not in any order so look thru them and if you have any questions ask.

http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/70-Javelin-Mark-Donohue

Dave ----

TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car
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FuzzFace2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:19pm
Dave ---
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car
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wantajav View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wantajav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:23pm
I suggest :
Battery box (use flat piece of metal), radiator support (hopefully buy one on here from a member)
 
cut out the rust, grind the edges of the cut
 
panel bond adhesive/gun - check amazon  get gun/panel bond/nozzles all for $82. Way cheaper than a welding set up.
 
These aren't structural areas will turn out better than non-gas amateur MIG attempts.
 
On to the next task!
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:15pm
mig welding is one of the easiest things to learn, just take your time and make rolls of dimes when you start welding.
Play with some scrap pieces and listen for that crackling sound this you will get by adjusting the heat and feed rate of the wire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by wantajav wantajav wrote:

I suggest : 
panel bond adhesive/gun - check amazon  get gun/panel bond/nozzles all for $82. Way cheaper than a welding set up.
 
These aren't structural areas will turn out better than non-gas amateur MIG attempts.
 
On to the next task!
Mike
They may not be structural as we think they are but I would not glue them either.
Could check CL or ebay for a used 110v welder and if you can get it with gas do so as it makes the welds that much better.
New, check Sams club, Costco or Lowes, Home depto even Eastwood sells them. Also get a auto dark helmet.
I look at getting a welder that it will pay for it's self. If you had to pay to have this done what do you think it would be $$$. You also have it for other projects and you learn a new skill.
Dave ----
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car
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Ant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 6:22pm
Where are you located?
Maybe a forum member would help out where needed.
73 AMX project 401 stroker, t-56 mag
Full-time machinist
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wantajav View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wantajav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 6:25pm
Actually - Dave has a different viewpoint but I agree with all his points. PLUS father-son project great for the learning (I learned stick welding when dear Papa decided to make all our railings around the house from bar stock/steel channel. Not much fun working under his iron hand (pun alert) I must say, but I could chip sl*g off a weld with the best of them! by the conclusion of that project)
 
only thing about a 110V Craigslist special is:
 
low duty cycle
probably doesn't work perfectly
you won't know if it is you or the machine
frustration
reduced fun factor for the project
 
If you must go MIG, I say get a new one even a Horrible Fright model with a top quality wire not their dental floss wire.
 
Thing is: panel bonding is much more than "gluing" which sounds like making a birdhouse
 
-clean /prepped adhesive areas
-use set screws to squeeze the bond to the correct thickness, IIRC around 20 microns which are the diameter of small beads in the glue, this ensures the proper bond strength.
-you do the first two things listed above,  and a proper panel bond is far stronger and more durable than MIG esp non-gas MIG. Which is why OEM's have gone to it.If Javvy's were still being made in 2013 I guarantee you AMC would be bonding those huge roof panels not spot weld/lead/chewing gum
 
The $500-1000 bucks you'll have in a gas MIG set up/wire/helmet/gloves can be used for other parts of the build. Panel bond : 1,000,000 wrecked BMW's and minivans can't be wrong!
 
Mike


Edited by wantajav - Apr/29/2013 at 6:30pm
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