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headers / exhaust manifolds? |
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ccowx
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/03/2010 Location: Yukon Status: Offline Points: 3510 |
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A couple of thoughts:
-These motors were incredibly choked down at the factory. The logs/2"pipes are a tragedy on a performance motor, the manifolding is fair, the carb is tiny and the cam was mild, particularly the early 70 version. Best rpms are not even 5000 and the engine can spin much higher than that and hold together, even with a 100% stock bottom end. -I politely disagree with the statement that the manifolds are not important on a street motor. With stock cam and such as above, MAYBE they are barely adequate. However, a mild cam upgrade and a larger carb alone and you would quickly outstrip the flow of the logs. You don't have to go too much farther to outflow the free flows either. My car sees 5500 to MAYBE 6000 rpms and it definitely needs the headers. As mentioned above, the performance difference is noticeable. -The main issue is that there is limited availability of good headers. You don't hear the Chevy guys griping like this because they can get affordable, good quality headers. Now we can get good ones, just not cheaply! -Your only choice if you care about stock is the factory logs. The only other choice is (arguably) the Thorley group 19 headers, if you can find a set. My personal suggestions is that if your engine is dead factory stock, go with logs. If you care about performance, go with headers but spend the money to get good ones with matching pipes. And BTW, if you have ANY upgrades such as cam, carb, or ANYTHING else performance oriented you will need to have 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" pipes. Increasing flow at the manifolds is useless with 2" pipes. -The free flows (plus larger pipes of course)are adequate for moderate performance work, ie a few bolt on upgrades to an otherwise stock engine. They look good and have good ground clearance. Just my opinions from observing various engine combinations with different pipes and mufflers. Other results may vary! Chris
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johnsue79
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Sep/15/2014 Location: new jersey Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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chris, other than the 30 over rebuild, I really have no idea what else was done to the motor. i now know i don't want stock logs. the free flows for my application seem like a good choice, however, headers seem to make the most performance sense.
your thoughts on long tube or shorty's? thanks, john |
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fast401
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Sep/16/2008 Location: swanton, ohio Status: Offline Points: 3467 |
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Here are the dyno numbers for my 401 with Isky 280HL cam, 10.1 compression, 30 over, twin 500 cfm carbs on an offenhauser 2X4 intake, Scorpion 1.6 roller rockers, Johnson lifters. The intake is the reason for the low hp numbers.
Massaged Freeflows - 366hp/401tq
Edelbrock shorties - 368hp/411tq
Long tube headers - 382hp/430
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Disturbing the peace since 1970!!! AMX 19245
Facebook page - AMC Nation www.fast-401.4t.com |
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kingsX
AMC Nut Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: Holland, MI Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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If you have the ground clearance, I'd definitely go with long tube headers but as said before, spend the money on some good ones. You wont have as many issues with leaks and get better ground clearance.
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73 AMX Javelin PC
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AMXFSTBK390
AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/22/2013 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 3489 |
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I am surprised with all the knowledgeable members on this forum, no one has addressed this |
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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?
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tsanchez
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/09/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 4303 |
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ccowx
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/03/2010 Location: Yukon Status: Offline Points: 3510 |
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My own thoughts on the free flows and shorty's is that they are likely pretty similar in performance. I can not back this up but the above comparison is probably a good place to start. Looking similar with a slight nod to the Shorty headers.
Long tube headers seem to be in a bit different category than the ff's or shortys. They have better scavenging and the seat of the pants feel gives a definite advantage in the mid range. If you are willing to spend the money and give up a bit of ground clearance then they are the way to go. However, at below 5000 rpm I doubt there is a huge advantage to them, other than the mid range boost. Don't forget the rest of the pipes and mufflers. A friend of mine put a set of headers on his SC/360 back in the day and got no performance increase at all with the stock 2" pipes UNTIL he uncorked them and he got a HUGE difference with open headers! Similarly, I went to straight through type mufflers from stock types and gained .7 seconds in the quarter mile with no other changes. Lesson, the system will only flow as much as the weakest link. I would use free flows, 2-1/4"+ pipes and straight through mufflers. It does not sound like your engine is carrying a hairy cam or wild induction system so likely that will be enough. You will have a stock-ish look, good flow and a nice sound, plus no header issues like leaks or high cost. Chris
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ghinmi
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/04/2010 Location: Grand Rapids MI Status: Offline Points: 978 |
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Here's a thinker. At the time I had a mild 401 in my Wagoneer. The best I could muster with stock unported free flows was 14.2 in the 1/4. An hour later it ran 13.5 with the only change being swapping to Edelbrock shorties. And the Edelbrock/Patriot shorties are garbage compared to a good long tube with proper collectors.
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1975 Cherokee S - Turbo Hemi stick shift autocross/drag race/street 9.97 @ 140.4
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fast401
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Sep/16/2008 Location: swanton, ohio Status: Offline Points: 3467 |
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Disturbing the peace since 1970!!! AMX 19245
Facebook page - AMC Nation www.fast-401.4t.com |
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nda racer
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/28/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2591 |
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That is a big difference in a real world application. |
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