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head retorque after 1st start |
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Uncle Bud
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Feb/22/2011 Location: Slidell, La. Status: Offline Points: 379 |
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Posted: Jun/21/2011 at 6:46am |
After the first start should i retorque the head while the engine is warm or wait until it is cool. 1964 196, thanks for any and all help. |
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Buddy
1964 American 440H "Tortue Grande Vitesse" |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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My opinion is wait until cool - that's how I always retorque.
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raysinvegas
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Las Vegas NV Status: Offline Points: 2501 |
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Yeah, I'd wait for it to cool too. I know it's obvious, but make sure to follow the torque pattern in the TSM also.
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Andy Ray
64 440H 64 440 Convertible 68 Javelin SST 343 69 Javelin SST 343 69 SC/Rambler |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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On a re-torque where the bolts haven't worked loose it's not that important to follow the torque sequence UNLESS you loosen all bolts then torque back down. If all the bolts are already relatively tight it's safe to loosen then re-torque one at a time in any sequence. One or two slightly loose bolts won't warp the head. When you're doing a routine re-torque on one of these (should do it every other year at a minimum, or every time the valve cover is off for adjusting the valves) just loosen and tighten each bolt one at a time. The TSM says to check torque every 8K miles, but I've been able to run 12-14K miles with no problems. I just wouldn't push it past 15K. If you do have problems the head warps and usually cracks due to their age, and good ones are hard to find now.
Edited by farna - Jun/23/2011 at 10:51am |
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Frank Swygert
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Uncle Bud
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Feb/22/2011 Location: Slidell, La. Status: Offline Points: 379 |
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Thanks to all.
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Buddy
1964 American 440H "Tortue Grande Vitesse" |
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Thikstik
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/20/2008 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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I didnt know there was a re-tork maintanace interval for the early 196, is that the aluminum block?
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75 gremlin x, jeep 4.0 headed 258,
264H Cliff cam, intake,header. 390 holley. I want a 282 VAM motor! AC/PS/PDB. 72 AMX , 304 2bbl, 3speed, now disks...probably will sell, want an automatic /AC. |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I have an original owner manual for a 1960 Rambler American - and it's in there. You'd be amazed at the info that's in the early owner manuals - even tune-up info, and MORE!
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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YES -- the re-torque interval is in the TSM and the early owners manuals (pre 63, might be pre 63... I know all the tune-up and maintenance info is in the 61 and earlier American owners manuals. The TSM says to "check head bolt torque" at 8K intervals. The only way to check is to loosen and re-torque as far as I know. I suppose you could put a wrench on the bolt and "check" without loosening, but may as well loosen then torque it back down.The bolt could be stuck, which would give a false torque reading.
THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE ALUMINUM ENGINE!! The tops of the cylinder walls are only supported by contact with the head in the AL block. The liners are firmly anchored at the bottom (cast into place) and are siamesed, but are more likely to shift when the engine blows a head gasket due to overheating because of loose head bolts. The head design is identical to the cast iron block head, just a bit wider for the AL engine. The head bolts loosen over time because the rather massive head expands and contracts by about 0.020" every heat/cooling cycle (every time it's fully warmed up then cools down to ambient temperature). It can expand and contract up to half that much just with regular weather changes. I've run the CI block engine as much as 15K miles between re-torques, but more commonly ran it 10-12K (averaged 5-6K a year, re-torqued every other year). I re-torqued it and adjusted valves every other year regardless of miles put on, but it was a daily driver at the time, with some "rest" when I was able to ride my motorcycle to work and for errands. I put 5-6K on the car AND 5-6K on the bike every year in my younger days, no need to drive so much anymore (I was military away from home, that included a couple trips back home most years, and a long distance trip to an AMC car show). If the car is only a fair weather hobby car, you can probably go 3-4 years between re-torques and valve adjustments, but keep a record so you don't forget, and don't go over 10K miles. Like I said, normal temp changes will expand/contract the head just a little. Edited by farna - Jun/27/2011 at 8:56am |
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Frank Swygert
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Uncle Bud
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Feb/22/2011 Location: Slidell, La. Status: Offline Points: 379 |
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Hello Frank, After reading your last post I went back to my TSM and looked up OHV "cylinder head and gasket". In the last paragraph the last sentence "The engine must be at normal operating temperature". I had the TSM with me when I put the engine together, but I missed the last sentence. In the tune up section a major tune every 8000 miles, torque cylinder head, adjust valve lash. Again engine must be at normal temperature. It helps when I read all directions.
Edit, changed "you" to "I" in last sentence.
Edited by Uncle Bud - Jun/27/2011 at 1:46pm |
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Buddy
1964 American 440H "Tortue Grande Vitesse" |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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I always torqued mine cold. The bolts do expand slightly hot, but not enough to make much difference. Never had a problem over 14 years of driving. I bet modern torque wrenches are more accurate too, which makes a difference.
I went back and edited my post... I somehow overlooked the Tune-Up section in the early TSMs. I don't mind being corrected, everyone makes mistakes, but I don't want to accidentally mislead anyone. Edited by farna - Jun/27/2011 at 8:57am |
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Frank Swygert
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