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Guidance on selecting auto trans for 600HP 69 AMX |
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zim390
AMC Fan Joined: Aug/10/2010 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Posted: Aug/05/2017 at 10:07am |
I am recently retired and finally able to start my 69 AMX ground-up resto... As it sits now, the car has a 1970 390 ("Y" motor out of a Machine with Group 19 kit)) with a 4spd (T10-P). Stock AMC-20 rear end (3:54) with solid Moser axles. The car has been totally stripped, primed and ready to begin reassembly. When completed, my plan is to bracket race the car but also keep it street-able for weekend driving. I have already already talked with Barry Allen about doing the engine rebuild and will be looking to achieve 500 - 600 hp/tq. Also planning to install the Control-Freak front and rear suspension kits. I am considering converting from manual to automatic transmission, but am basically flying blind on how to proceed. I believe that my options may be going with a TF-727 or a 400 Turbo, but not sure of the advantages / disadvantages......or whether other options may exist. Basically looking for the best configuration that will handle the power, but that won't result in major surgery on the car. Would appreciate any feedback / guidance from those who have experience in this area.
Thx Zim
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akimmet
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/02/2012 Location: Republic OH Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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I have a TH400 in my 1968 AMX, with no modifications to the transmission tunnel. You will either need to make a custom cross member or modify the original to fit. The biggest downside of the AMC pattern TH400 is the lack of speedometer hole, and the annoying 5deg twist built into the bell housing.
The AMC pattern TH400 was also never made in a 2wd version. That means a full transmission disassembly to swap the output shaft to a 2wd version. This transmission requires a special TH400 flexplate. The stock one off a Jeep is too flimsy for 600 hp. JW makes an aftermarket bellhousing for the TH350 and TH400 to modify a more common bop or Chevy pattern case to fit an AMC. They might be able to make one for a 700R4 if you want overdrive. I have read reports of the 727 fitting in the transmission tunnel as well, they were supposedly able to use the stock cross member with a transmission mount from a 1972 Javelin. SFI rated flexplates are easier to come by for this application. Both of these transmission options require a crankshaft with the later 72-up crank flange. While the TH400 is slightly more durable, the TF 727 is probably a much better fit and easier to come by. |
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304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
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Be sure to obtain a 727 from a 401, as other smaller displacement engines did not have the stronger planetary and other internals. It will save you $, if going with the TF tranny.
The Jeep th400 is good on its own, but there are weaknesses, such as the sprag and less clutch packs setup in the drums. All can be replaced but with added costs. Both trannys are strong as is, but I recommend sourcing better components for the late 70's jeep tranny. By 74 GM cheapened up on the th400 components. Though if you can source a 66 on up to 70 big block th400 you can swap out parts. As for the speedo hole, it won't be a concern if changing a jeep tranny to 2 wheel drive. The cache will be empty and it will be the best time to machine out the speedo hole and tap a bolt hole for retaining the gear assembly. |
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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
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zim390
AMC Fan Joined: Aug/10/2010 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Thanks guys for the quick responses. As I understand it, the original auto trannys that came in the 68-71 390/401's were the Borg Warner M12, and that AMC changed to the TF-727 in 1972. Should I assume that finding/rebuilding an M12 would not be an option?
So if I go with a TF-727, this is my understanding at a high level of what I would need to do:
1. Machine my 390 crank to fit the input shaft of the 727. 2. Rebalance engine with the new 727 flexplate. 3. The driveshaft must also be cut and rebalanced. 4. All mechanical 727 kickdown linkage must be obtained, installed and adjusted. 5. Install new shifting rod linkage. Does it sound like I'm in the ballpark? I also see a bunch of 727 tranny suppliers on the Web. Are you aware of any that may specialize in AMC's and may have already supplied to AMC owners? |
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akimmet
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/02/2012 Location: Republic OH Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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While the M12 isn't really a bad or inherently weak transmission, it has almost zero aftermarket support. A stock M12 is marginal behind a completely stock 390 let alone a 600HP monster. There is more than one way to adapt a 727 to an early engine. One alternative method I have seen is to machine down the snout of the torque converter to fit in the early crankshaft. Another is to swap the rotating assembly from a 401 into your 390 block. Since you have a 70 block you already have the taller deck required by the extra stroke. |
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401harry
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/27/2011 Location: Clearwater,Fl Status: Offline Points: 758 |
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Machine my 390 crank to fit the input shaft of the 727. Machine work is for enlarging the torque converter pilot hole only 2. Rebalance engine with the new 727 flexplate. Yes if its externally balanced already. If Allen builds you an internally balanced motor than you can just get a neutral balanced flexplate 3. The driveshaft must also be cut and rebalanced. Yes, You want a custom steel driveshaft anyways for 600 HP along with upgraded u joints and maybe even yokes 4. All mechanical 727 kickdown linkage must be obtained, installed and adjusted.Only if you have a valve body that needs it and if you do use the Lokar cable which is way nicer 5. Install new shifting rod linkage.Yes if you plan on keeping the stock shifter
I was going to overhaul the existing already beefed up 727 in my Matador but decided to buy a complete transmission from CRT. They are well respected in the Mopar world. I called and told him what I needed and he had a few AMC pattern 727 cores available. I spec'd mine out with a billet steel front drum (you definitely want that) a bolt in sprag and the usual billet servos red clutches, kolenes etc along with 4 pinion planetaries.This one also comes with a reverse manual valve body with low band apply and engine braking. Got the trans for $2200 delivered including core charge. I paid that much for a local guy to build up a 998 with pretty much the same pieces and a cheetah valve body I already bought. You will need to figure out what torque converter you will need as well. My car is mostly street but I have a 10" Turbo Action around 3200 stall 727 or 400 is your choice. I am partial to the Torquflites but there are many here who like and run the 400 either way its way better than the M12 |
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zim390
AMC Fan Joined: Aug/10/2010 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Thanks Harry......lots of good info. You mentioned the 998. Perhaps I should also be considering that or even a 904 as well? My head is already starting to spin, as there seems to be numerous options. I am taking the time to search the entire forum for additional info, as I assume others before have had the same questions.
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
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I have a 727 in my car. But I like the 400 better for extreme hi performance. But either will do the job. A 360 TF can be built to handle 600 HP with a bolt in sprag and shift kit.
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akimmet
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/02/2012 Location: Republic OH Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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On something that sees a lot of street use, I have noticed the bigger transmissions are less likely to overheat.
On a dedicated drag car a 904 or 998 gives an advantage due to less rotating mass. |
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401harry
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/27/2011 Location: Clearwater,Fl Status: Offline Points: 758 |
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Yes I have a built 998 in my Spirit behind a 400HP 360. The 998/904 are basically the same except the 998 was created by Chrysler to handle the HP from a smaller V8. AMC used them with 304s from 72-75 or so in non lock up and then in 304s and Eagles (999) till the end in lockup form. It has a couple reinforcing ribs externally over the rear servo to help identify it.Internally it came with a bigger front drum and a double wrap band. I like the 904/998 in a light car under 500 HP. The small block Mopar guys love them and some Pro Stock guys run them in Big Blocks for racing as it uses less HP than a 727. There is even a high dollar racing trans out there called a ProFlite that uses 904 guts in a 727 case but I like the durability of the 727 in a bigger car on the street. Also converter choices are limited for AMC 904s |
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