TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Competition > Autocross, circle track
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - STEERING LINKAGE
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

STEERING LINKAGE

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
JERSEYJOE View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Oct/23/2008
Location: TUG HILL NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1718
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JERSEYJOE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: STEERING LINKAGE
    Posted: Dec/17/2018 at 6:16pm
DOES ANYONE MAKE OR KNOW OF AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE STOCK AMX FRONT STEERING LINKAGE?
 
I AM RUNNING CONTROL FREAK ARMS, KONIS, CUSTOM SPRINGS AND HEIM JOINT STRUT RODS. SEEMS THAT THE STOCK RELAY ROD AND TIE RODS ARE A BIT WEAK
1985 J-20 PLOW TRUCK
1977 CJ 7 360 T-18 D 300
1970 AMX ex-SCCA car


SPEED COSTS MONEY HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/17/2018 at 6:25pm
you have a 70 right?  The center link was updated in 70 on up big body cars.  Pre 70 big body can use the later center link. Though, as for tie rods and ends were updated for big body some time in  late 73 or 74  or so, they can be mounted on earlier cars. Not sure exactly how much beefier they are but they will help. The replacement parts may be hard to find, but 401matcoupe will be your best bet on finding them if needed.

I have my center link from my 71, though that Is the only part once will need from stock setup on Javelin or AMX bodies.

I had to source big 7/8"  or 15/16" solid hex adjusters from a courier I believe, they will work for setting up the tie rods to the ends.

scratch the part number of the courier tie rod adjuster sleeves... just remembered I had to go metric on my parts later on with my updates. I may be able to find them, if needed.



Edited by 304-dude - Dec/17/2018 at 6:30pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
JERSEYJOE View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Oct/23/2008
Location: TUG HILL NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1718
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JERSEYJOE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/17/2018 at 6:36pm
304 DUDE I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING THIS WITH YOU.  ANY PHOTOS?
1985 J-20 PLOW TRUCK
1977 CJ 7 360 T-18 D 300
1970 AMX ex-SCCA car


SPEED COSTS MONEY HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/17/2018 at 7:42pm
tomorrow... need to get it out from under car as it is with other items that need drug out,  and have sun light... to show diameter measurement with tape measure or yard stick.

As for knowledge,  I have not done the bigger tie rods and ends, but knew of it back be for I started with big mods on conversion over to rack.

I do have some pdf or links on converting standard taper tie rod ends to metric equivalent for the rod adjuster. Ford has the same taper on most of the tie rod ends as AMC.  So no need to ream the steering arm  to fit, just obtain a good heavy duty tie rod end with metric thread for the larger  tie rod diameter.

I used Ford truck tie rods which are pretty stout especially with the solid hex adjuster, which are M16 thread. But having the long hex adjuster take up as much thread as possible (cut thread end fit at tie rod) the less strain and flex at the  open threaded area.

The only issue is finding a tie rod for the center link that will work with metric if going that route. Maybe some late Jeep or Dodge stuff may fit for such replacement. Then if that is so, 
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/17/2018 at 8:24pm
okay,  I guess I don't have the pdf or link to go over replacement parts to steering components any more.  I thought I kept them or may have cleaned out too much.

I did look up jeep / dodge  inner tie rods, they are M18 which are huge. So I doubt that would work as the adjuster sleeve would need to be dual sized, for fitting M16 to M18. Most heavy duty car and light trucks fall around M16. Few are M17 but I recall anything larger than M16 would be difficult to make fit without machining and customised fit.

What links I did find, only limited me to modern rack inner link, which would require modification to the center link.

The option to fit rack tie rods may work, if you are willing to have machine and weld work done to the ends of the center link for provision the screw in stud of a ball joint used in the rack inner link. If that can be done, then I can give a list of off the shelf parts that will fit and be heavy duty.   2001 to 2014 MUSTANG GT outer ends have M16 threads, and will fit 98 Geo Tracker adjuster sleeves, and the 2005 Expedition inner tie rod is one big rod, that Ford finally started using on the new Mustang GT line. You can also use the 2002 Crown Vic,  as it is a wee shorter if needed for your fitment.

The only issue is creating a dust boot for the ball end, as racks use a billows. I ordered ball joint caps to fit over a tie rod ball ends for my custom links for the sway bar. It is an easy option that can be done, since many ball joints are big enough for a proper dust cap fit over the rack tie rod ball end.


Edited by 304-dude - Dec/17/2018 at 8:26pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
JERSEYJOE View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Oct/23/2008
Location: TUG HILL NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1718
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JERSEYJOE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/17/2018 at 8:47pm
GREAT IDEA 304.   You would think that by now someone would sell an off the shelf set up for this since all the 70+ cars are the same.  After all they make control arms and spring set ups ( Control Freak)
 
But then again my car raced competitive n SCCA B Production back in the 70's with stock arms. steel bushings and Konis.
1985 J-20 PLOW TRUCK
1977 CJ 7 360 T-18 D 300
1970 AMX ex-SCCA car


SPEED COSTS MONEY HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/18/2018 at 6:24am
Originally posted by JERSEYJOE JERSEYJOE wrote:

GREAT IDEA 304.   You would think that by now someone would sell an off the shelf set up for this since all the 70+ cars are the same.  After all they make control arms and spring set ups ( Control Freak)
 
But then again my car raced competitive n SCCA B Production back in the 70's with stock arms. steel bushings and Konis.

Well, the closest thing being done like that was replacing the strut rod with a heavy duty tie rod. Though the member here, I cannot remember off hand. He use to race rally in a sprint or gremlin, which is more demanding than road coarse. 

Yep, I don't know why the stock tie rod setup was never looked at as an opportunity for custom made kits. Though it would require some tooling for designing a center link replacement kits to work with heim, or off the shelf components. Many racers go with all heim, and have customised their own unique setups.  From what I have seen in some pictures, ColoradoAMX's T/A clone looks to have some heavy duty replacements, probably from other makes setup on his center link. You may have to drop him a PM on what he is using. Probably be easier to setup without mods done to the center link. If any thing, reaming new over sized or taper to fit the bigger tie rods, similar to what I had to do for fitting Mustsng II spindles to fit our ball joints.

I had no choice with figuring out what I could do with an oem Mustang GT rack setup. I could not believe until 2008 or a wee later, the Mustang GT rack had weak tie rods. Once I looked at my 2002 rack, I quickly decided to modify truck tie rods to fit the mustang rack. The Mustang GT tie rods used nylon bushings in the ball cup with wee pressure springs. Plus the ball and cup were small, and peeps were racing Cobra,  and GT350 builds on them. I had a set of 2000 or so Corvette tie rods that are noticeably better, but not as stout as the truck tie rods I have modified to fit. The truck tie rods are metal ball on metal cup, with tight tolerances. I cut and modified the vette tie rods to mount my sway bar, to move it on the upper arm, like Penske / Donohue T/A Javelin. As they are stout enough to perform the job as end links, while giving a more stockish look than heim joints. Just the placement is not stock, which stands out.

So, with seeing how much better truck tie rods are, I assume that may be the route done on many home grown racer builds back in the day. Just go to your NAPA parts store and browse the truck parts book for a good upgrade replacement that fits.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/18/2018 at 12:15pm
here is my measurements on 71 tie rod ends and center link.

The center link diameter is about 7/8", the tie rod shafts are 5/8".

My M16 truck tie rods are about the same diameter as the 71 AMC tie rods.  Since my tie rod setup length is made for a rack, as it is mounted at the ends.  The length is a wee short by an inch compared the AMC tie rod setup. The AMC tie rod,  from inner ball stud to outer ball stud, length is about 17". Though my tie rods have been shortened to use as much of the solid hex adjuster as possible, leaving very little open thread. So with untouched M16 tie rods for the Ford Expedition could be adjusted at least 1/2" longer than AMC length to fit nicely, as an option to convert.

Though there is one issue... only the driver side to the AMC center link is 17" and is located at the end, while the passenger side Is mounted behind the pitman arm, and requires a longer tie rod length, and must have a provision made for being mounted at the end, which will require use of a crown vic tie rod (as it Is shorter)  to compensate for the extension to the end of the center link. It should not effect steering, as before it was not an even match to the opposite side. Instead of being longer, it will be almost the difference shorter from the pitman arm stud center.

Seeing the play in tie rods, after some wear,  the issue is more about two locations to allow deviation that acts like flex. Having a larger rod may only allow for a larger pivot ball to locate better after wear, which does more for sturdiness than just using a thicker rod.

The mustang gt / cobra rack tie rod is a small rod diameter design, which made stock AMC tie rods look truck strong. So, that was my main concern, as to keep the diameter close to stock, not overly smaller.


Edited by 304-dude - Dec/18/2018 at 12:22pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
klvn8r View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Feb/26/2012
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote klvn8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2018 at 2:09pm
Good stuff, here!!!  I was going to just replace the basic tie rod sleeves...now y'all got me thinking about bigger/better ends etc.

Joe--my AMX is a vintage class BP car.  New 343 on the stand!

klvn8r


Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2018 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by klvn8r klvn8r wrote:

Good stuff, here!!!  I was going to just replace the basic tie rod sleeves...now y'all got me thinking about bigger/better ends etc.

Joe--my AMX is a vintage class BP car.  New 343 on the stand!

klvn8r




I am not sure, but you may adapt Krypton performance rod links for 60s amd 70s Mustang. A bit pricy at $300.00, but if you have no resources to setup a setup for your self, that may work, and look a notch up on stock.


Edited by 304-dude - Dec/28/2018 at 2:16pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or