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Manifold choke heat tube on a 232

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69gladiator View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov/17/2018 at 1:16pm
I recall a post a while back regarding the sleeve on a 232 in the manifold for the choke heat tube. However I cannot locate the posts. The choke tube rusted out so I replaced it. Now there appears to be an exhaust leak coming out of the hole. I’m assuming that the sleeve in the manifold gave up the ghost also. I recall that someone had made a tool to drive out the old one. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Edited by 69gladiator - Nov/17/2018 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fluffy73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2018 at 11:21pm
A screw driver or a punch can be used to drive out the tube.  Or, if it has rotten away inside, probably best to pull the manifold off and then use a pair of pliers or channel locks to remove the remaining chunks of tube.

Then, tap & plug the holes with little pipe plugs.

Finally, convert carb to electric choke.

I did this to both of my sixes and was very happy with how it turned out.  We even went as far as to remove the heat riser flap in my Gremlin and it actually slightly changed the way the exhaust sounded!

I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/18/2018 at 9:51pm
New manifolds come with new choke heat tubes installed.

I bought a new replacement heat tube from Kennedy American four years ago. 

I suggest keeping the hot air choke if you can. They do a better job of matching the choke opening to engine temperature than electric chokes do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/18/2018 at 10:47pm
I have NOS choke heat tubes for 232 etc.
I have owned many AMCs with 6s and the shop I started out in was a former Rambler dealership shop so I stocked up on the tubes over the years and still have 2 or 3 left.

I made a special punch because the last thing you want to do is bend that tube on the way out or get part of it inside the manifold.
I used a steel rod and turned it to a perfect size to go into the inside of the tube a ways (they are crimped to increase surface area inside the manifold - they are only round where they enter and exit the exhaust manifold.)
Anyway, I made a punch that had a ledge on it - it would go all the way through the manifold but the ledge caught the tube and drove it out
Basically it was a steel rod with a step and the small diameter went inside the tube an inch or so, and the outside JUST fit the hole in the manifold.

Make sure the heat riser valve is working and free to move in the manifold.
There is a thermostatic spring and a counter-weight on it. I used to have a kit for those, too - maybe still do......... 

Not around much because after Dad's death every waking moment has been spent on estate, family, dealing with vandalism, legal issues, and so on. Hope to get caught up very soon as I'm pushing my brothers hard, especially one who doesn't seem to want to move on things there, to get stuff OUT and sell so we can move on.
My shop is FULL of family stuff so it's not easy to find things now - but if needed, I think I know where the tubes are and with some effort, if I have a 232 heat riser repair kit, maybe that as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69gladiator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/19/2018 at 8:11am
if you can find the tool, I’ll take it. Please pm me so I can send you some funds. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/19/2018 at 9:14am
If you obtain the new replacement tube and take it to a local machine shop, they can probably make one in short order at little cost. It sounds like bar stock with just one or two diameters on a lathe.
Just an alternative.
Bill, seems a tad busy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2018 at 10:00am
The trick, IMO, is to also get part of the "driver" that helps remove the old tube the diameter that will fit inside the old tube and help keep it from bending or collapsing on the way out. That requires destroying a good used tube, or a new one, to know that dimension, or a good "guess.
I mention the latter because I found that I had pretty much destroyed the tool I made decades ago when using it for other purposes - so had to make new and didn't want to sacrifice a good tube.

Anyway, you'll also notice that the tubes are a bit different from original NOS tubes.
The originals have a nicer, flatter top flange and the bottom taper is better, smoother. In short, the latter tubes were cheapened up.
If you had a NOS from the 60s or 70s, you'd find the flange was flat enough you could use a long SOCKET to drive the new tube in.
New tubes have a more tapered top flange and using a socket often results in getting the socket STUCK on the top of the tube as it wants to ride over the tapered flange instead of resting on it and driving the tube home.
So I made a tool to drive the tube in using the top edge - it fits into the tube and has a squared lip that rests on the tube to drive it in. That "lip" or ledge must be perfectly 90 degrees or you risk spreading the tube and the tool wanting to mushroom the top of the tube.

Driving the old tube out can be simple or extremely tough. I worked on 232s by the score back in the 70s because our shop had been part of an AMC dealership before the owner stopped selling AMCs and sold strictly used cars of any sort. So most customers were "Rambler owners" and in Iowa, well......
Anyway, sometimes they came out easily, and sometimes in PIECES.

The tool I used relied on driving the tube up from the bottom, OR, cutting off the top end of the tube with a hack saw blade (or today a DREMEL tool with a metal cutting wheel!!!) and then driving the tube down and out.
IMO, the key is that the tool has to be able to follow the tube down through the manifold so has to be turned down so it just fits into the manifold's tube hole.

I'll post photos of the tubes I have, noting the differences over time, and of the tools I have made since I destroyed (bent up and beat to death) the old one I had made from a leaf spring tie bolt since I didn't have a steel rod on hand all those years ago when I made the first one.

Here are four tubes I have - one is salvaged from a car that got trashed shortly after the tube was put in so it's hardly used at all - like new, the other, with tape on it, is an original NOS tube and the others I can't recall where I go them - likely later repros after AMC's demise.



Note the nicer taper of the two originals on the right:


IMO, the two originals on the right would be easier to drive in because a deep socket could be used against the more squared flange as opposed to the two on the left.:



Now the tools I made - basic "cold rolled" stock.

I REALLY wish I had an old tube I could cut the top off of to make a tool that fit into the old tube more snugly. I didn't want to cut a new or good one. If I had an old tube I could use to determine the inside measurement for certain I could make it fit better for driving out old tubes.

Top driver can be used to drive a new tube in, bottom one shown if used to drive an old tube UP from the bottom but the lip isn't very big, so...........



One on the right to install/drive new in, one on the left to drive old tube out:


Again, tool to drive new tube in although a deep socket could be used if the flange is good on the new/replacement. By the way, the mic is one Dad had when he was a line inspector years ago. I inherited that and the holster he had as well as a few other small shirt-pocket tools by Starrett that he used as an inspector. Well, not inherited, really, he gave them to me before he died.:

 

OK, if you can't drive it up from the bottom or need to drive the tube down and out, cut off the top including the flange using a hack saw blade or a Dremel with a metal cutting disk. If careful you can remove that part pretty easily. Then use a simple tool like this that just fits into the tube and just goes through the manifold hole to drive the old tube out. 
Note that I make the tool so that it sticks down into the tube as far as possible to help keep it straight and prevent it from bending, etc. at least as far or as much as possible - thus, the long "nose" I put on it.



And finally I turn it so that it will fit into the manifold the entire distance so it can drive a tube clear out the top or clear out the bottom.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/26/2018 at 10:52pm
nice work!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/27/2018 at 12:41am
At least you can replace them. You can't replace the choke heat stove on a lot of engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/27/2018 at 6:58pm
I noticed a couple of wrenches in the first picture Bill. Nice!
The tools look good also. A little fast with the feed rate on the second diameter cut, just saying.
Would be good to discuss over a few brown bottles one day, :)
From an admirer to devotion and workmanship.
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