|
|
|
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
73 Javelin Oiling upgrades |
Post Reply 
|
Page <12 |
| Author | |
Steve_P 
AMC Addicted 
Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3808 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(1)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: Oct/09/2018 at 9:38am |
|
there are nine million thread on this topic :) There's no reason to address anything specific to a 401 unless you're doing endurance racing. They last just fine with typical high performance use and we know this because not every one has blown up over the last 40 years. They're still around. Drain back absolutely IS the problem for extended higher RPM operation (>15 seconds) There isn't enough oil in the pan, it's in the heads, and the bearings get starved. The easy way to fix this is increase oil capacity. Get a bigger oil pan. That's all you need unless you're doing extended periods of >4000 RPM operation
|
|
 |
|
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted
Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/09/2018 at 10:07am |
|
True but... The op has confirmed daily steet use concerns. Since I am thinking no higher than 5K RPM any OEM built AMC V8 should stand up to minutes on end without issues.
Taking two 304 engines through my lifetime over 6+ years of my abuse. Mainly AM engines just because I found them so durable stock.i killed two turbo dodge 2.2L engines within a month compared to never killing a 304. Yet, what his issues are with his 401 are low oil pressures now, while not hardly working the engine. Here is part of a multi thread that took a long time to reach and identify the oiling issue. Basically a bad rebuild. Since the OP stated it is a low milage rebuild he may be suffering from how the engine was rebuilt. http://theamcforum.com/forum/amx-401-take-4_topic55796.html I think the OP has made his questions sound like another oiling mod thread, but in truth he is trying to solve low oil pressure first, and go from there. I don't think... well, never thought a deeper pan or a quart more oil will help him, as he barely has enough pressure at idle to war rent a good romping on the engine. Heck, my stock engines never needed more than 5 quarts and I ran 4800 RPM getting on it in 1st t 55MPH and staying there for minute just to get a good hard 2nd. If anything i should have starve my engine of oil, right? Well i think we got two sides of the coin. If your able to push over 5K RPM add more oil. If your stock on the street, just keep tabs on oil level. A 304 pumps just as much oil through the block as a 401. So peeps yelling just add oil ain't the answer for low pressure at idle and mid range. The thread i gave is insight to what has been done to identify low pressure. Unfortunately your engine is in operation not on the bench. Edited by 304-dude - Oct/09/2018 at 10:11am |
|
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
|
|
|
Red Devil
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/09/2018 at 10:23am |
... check your gauge  If going by a stock gauge, a 40 yr old gauge may read low or sendor isn't working right. TSM spec = 13 psi @600rpm, 37 - 75 psi above 1600 rpm (varies with rpm, temperature and oil viscosity).If it's gone 3500 miles since rebuild, presumably the rebuild was reasonably in spec or it likely would have blown-up by now. Is that pressure reading at idle, cruise, wide-open-throttle, other? Maybe your 7 quarts + Seafoam freed some crud and the pressure relief is stuck partly open or the filter blocked or you got a bad filter. Otherwise, see Steve P's post. |
|
|
|
|
CoffinMaster
AMC Apprentice 
Joined: Jul/02/2018 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 100 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/09/2018 at 12:58pm |
|
If I have to drop the pan I'll look into replacing that nylon button, and I'll take some pictures the oil slinger if I get to the point where I can look into it. For now I'm hoping I can do enough so it won't bust on me anytime soon, since I'm already in the middle of another rebuild that's at a standstill. And I will check the gauges since I'm currently double checking electrical anyway, and the other gauges weren't always the most reliable so maybe it's giving me a bad reading. As for the Seafoam, I wouldn't think it would knock that much stuff loose after a rebuild and 3500 Miles. I did the oil change and it was regular dark, nothing out of the ordinary, but Seafoam did knock a ton of rust loose in my old tank and ruined 3 fuel filters, so perhaps. When I get to fixing the oil problems I'll get new cogs and parts for the pump, and maybe if I have the time then and there I'll drop the pan and work on the pickup. Once I've eliminated the pump and gauges I'll just have to keep an eye on it until I'm more free for a rebuild.
|
|
|
1973 AMC Javelin AMX, 360 727
1970 Mercury Cougar, 351C AOD |
|
|
|
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted
Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/09/2018 at 1:41pm |
As for the oil slinger... It is basic, face forward to seal against the timing cover seal. The fuel pump eccentric, and gears all fit on one way, as to face forward, but if you pull and drop them into in to a bucket, you may end up reversing one or more, and you will find trouble during install or out on the road after. If you kept the oil filter when dumping the 3200 mile oil, you could cut It open and examine the filter for copper flecks, it will be a tall tell sign of bearings on their way to failing. I was able to change out my old worn bearings over 100K on them with new, while engine was in car. Required a drop of the cross member while the engine was on a lift to hold it. I guess it would not hurt cracking a #6 main to verify it is unscathed, while your under the engine dropping the oil pan. Kill any doubts while your at it. |
|
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
|
|
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum 
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/10/2018 at 6:45am |
|
You don't really need a bigger pan, just overfill by one quart. The AMC police pan is the exact same externally as the standard pan. It has a minimal baffle to keep to much oil from sloshing forward on real hard stops, but that's it. The oil change for a police engine is SIX quarts instead of five though. I have read that AMC engineers initially specified six quarts, but marketing had a cow, as that made the AMC engine more costly to maintain since everyone else used five (not much difference, especially back then!). So engineering did some testing and said five quarts was plenty for normal driving, so go with five. Six was also recommended for HD use such as taxis and of course police use. The extra quart prevents 99% of starving issues. Unless you're building a 100% all-out drag car that you'll be turning over 6K rpm all the time I'd just make sure the oiling system is in top shape, with particular attention to drain back holes (some drill additional holes in the valley, others just clean up the stock holes) and things like the slot in the cam timing gear and clearances in oil pump.
Edited by farna - Oct/10/2018 at 6:48am |
|
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
|
|
|
CoffinMaster
AMC Apprentice
Joined: Jul/02/2018 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 100 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/10/2018 at 2:07pm |
|
That does ring a bell, I think I remember reading about that 6 quart or 5 quart problem, and I'll when I get to it I'll try to clean out the drain back holes, probably won't drill them unless theres a good guide since I've never drilled out anything on an engine.
|
|
|
1973 AMC Javelin AMX, 360 727
1970 Mercury Cougar, 351C AOD |
|
|
|
|
Buzzman72
AMC Addicted
Joined: Sep/15/2009 Location: Southern IN Status: Online Points: 2725 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Oct/10/2018 at 4:49pm |
|
So is there a maximum that the drainback holes can be enlarged...besides stopping when you hit coolant, I mean...? Has anyone experimented with a junked head to find out?
Edited by Buzzman72 - Oct/10/2018 at 4:55pm |
|
|
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page <12 |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Click for TheAMCForum Rules
Topic Options
CoffinMaster wrote: