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Exhaust flange question |
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PolarBear
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/16/2016 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Posted: May/18/2018 at 11:26pm |
1962 Rambler Cross Country wagon 196 straight six cast iron. Lots of air flow where the pipe attaches to the manifold. Stuffed a vacuum up the tail pipe and got lots of soap bubbles, lot easier then while running hot. Can not find the proper gasket. Looking at it it should be a flange donut type. Can find where to find the right part number or part.
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Polarbear
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tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6199 |
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I'm pretty sure that's a ball and socket joint, it doesn't use a gasket.
It has a 3 bolt flange, right ? It looks like one side is tighter than the other.
It would probably help if you took it apart, cleaned up both mating surfaces, and bolted it back together straight. |
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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as tyrodom points out, it's a ball end, swaged into the pipe. i've never found a shop that can do it. you'll need to either find a good used one (not as crazy as it sounds, as the guage is so heavy they don't seem to rot off even when badly pitted) and have new pipe welded to it, or go another route.
the ball will seal OK in the beveled hole in the manifold if it's close to "square" in the hole. the three studs need to be in good shape, so that you can pull the flange holding the pipe up evenly and smoothly. don't overtighten it, and definitely don't tighten one then try to pull the others up to match. go round and round. it's best to run a tap up the holes in the manifold and install new studs. they're cheap. in my experience it's not hard at all to remove the exhaust manifold. the dipstick/filler tube has to come out, i think, that's harder (clean the crud off so dirt doesn't fall in the hole -- visit a war wash with a wand). the other path, which i've done, is to simply weld rigid tube to a flange, and bolt it on with a donut gasket. and put one of those modern exhaust flexes right after the exhaust makes a turn to horizontal. it needs the ability to flex as the motor moves around. it does move on the mounts, not much, but a rigid exhaust pipe trying to restrain the 1/8" movement of 800 lbs of engine plus transmission is going to lose the contest. go over a big bump, the engine/trans shifts a bit, it's not rigid for a reason (in any car). the stainless-braid flex thing is what finally made my exhausts stay on the car without troubles. on the east coast, there's this idea of buying exhaust pipe in pre-bent sections and bolting it in; but on the west coast you just drive into a shop (ergh, if you can find a good one any more) and they bend to fit. (when i moved from MA to CA this was one of those things.... :-) |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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My take - remove pipe, cut that top part off, weld on a standard flare end, use a donut gasket, be done with it.
Your engine moves around? Wow, none of mine ever come loose.......... the exhaust system is hung on rubber, not bolted solid to the car, so unless the mounts are loose or shot, the engine shouldn't move that much. If it does move it's tiny fractions of an inch - which the fact that the system hangs on rubber should more than compensate for. The systems with problems are where the pipes are too solidly hung under the car. Once that pipe is tightened up, it will stay solid and the vibration absorbed by the exhaust hangers. Even my 70's side pipes have not leaked and those are mounted pretty solidly on the car while the engine is free to move as much as a good rubber mount allows. Again, the pipe hangers flex just enough. Eagle engines move a bit more because the front differential is literally hanging from the engine - no leaks there, either. I made the front pipe for my SX4 by welding a flange to pipes and elbows a neighbor furnished for me. |
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tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6199 |
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Pipe bending is a east coast west coast thing ??? Come on !
The shop next to where I work has a pipe bender, in my little sticks town of about 1000 people.
One of my race buddies has a pipe bender in his mechanic shop, in the town next to mine, maybe 2000 people. |
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Even in Des Moines they can bend STOCK pipes correctly.
The shop that did my exhaust says if I wanted STOCK they could have pulled cards and duplicated the stock exhaust - (but with 2.5" pipe that wasn't possible because it was too large for stock spaces.) See the bends in my photo - those bends were bought by a neighbor from a shop that kept mistakes, etc. and crated them up and sold them. |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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haha ok good! i only said i experienced it, 1970's. the bend-to-fit was novel to me then! likely my world was tiny. when i lived in Mass. it was all pipes hung in the shop. i moved to san francisco in '83 and it was all bent to order, no idea what i was talking about re: pre-bents. i *now* know personal experience seems like 'the world' when it's one narrow path (mine). today, i have no @#@%@$ idea what is done. probably everything is a dealer item, if 2018 cars will even get new exhausts. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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ooh, smart shop. a bend is a bend, one mistake is another solution. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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but specifically the 195.6 -- the ball and socket is unlike later engines. i have one in my parts bin, i can post a photo if it's interesting to anyone. i have manifolds too, so i could mock it up if interesting. it's a nash oddity i think.
the 195.6 doesn't move around any more than any other engine. the ball and socket accommodates the slight 'error' of typical exhaust installation, and negates any requirement for undue precision. that method was chosen for some reason lost to us now (except as physical evidence). the factory's solution worked fine. a lot of ad hoc shop repairs didn't, in the 50 years since it was new. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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"negates any requirement for undue precision" is the obvious reason -- easier/quicker to assemble by factory workers and still be right (no leaks to fix by QC or dealer) at the other end. Almost everything on the old Nash/early Rambler cars was made that way. I'd take it all apart and clean, make sure the ball isn't too beat up, then reassemble. You could use some high heat silicone on the ball, but it's not usually necessary unless the ball or socket are seriously pitted. Then make it as thin a layer as necessary -- the thicker it is the more chance of burning out. I've seen it used on the head to manifold joint in thin layers and it stayed.
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Frank Swygert
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