Break In Oil

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   Anyone know of a 7 qt Milodon oil pan that is 9” deep??
I’m thinking this pan is the 8qt one and not 7qrclike the P.O. told me...

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Bandana Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/26/2016 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 473	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bandana Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/06/2018 at 6:11pm
	Anyone know of a 7 qt Milodon oil pan that is 9” deep?? I’m thinking this pan is the 8qt one and not 7qrclike the P.O. told me...

PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5926	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/07/2018 at 11:33am
	Bandana - another thing that can possibly affect engine temperature is fuel air mixture. A too rich mixture will take a long time for the engine to heat up from a cold start. When the carb, choke, and all is working "good" a cold start engine should warm up quickly.
	Link to a Short YouTube Burnout Video

Buzzman72 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/15/2009 Location: Southern IN Status: Offline Points: 2726	Post Options Post Reply Quote Buzzman72 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/07/2018 at 4:26pm
	Back in the day, when my dad and granddad ran their garage, they ran nondetergent oil in a new engine during the 500-mile break-in period. Since they sold Texaco products, they ran Texaco red-and-white label nondetergent oil, usually a straight-weight oil. If the owner followed their recommendations, they would put in Havoline detergent oil at 500 miles. They then recommended changing again at 1000 miles and finally one more change at 2000 miles.
	Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.

FSJunkie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742	Post Options Post Reply Quote FSJunkie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/07/2018 at 11:52pm
	8% leakdown. That is very low. Most engines in their prime are 10-20% and all past the ring end gaps. Your compression rings have no problem with sealing. The compression rings don't do much to control oil burning though, that job is for the oil rings. Oil ring sealing will not show up in a leakdown test. However, you can bet the oil rings are sealing well if the compression rings are sealing as well as yours are. Oil rings don't really have a seating or break-in time. Moly-faced or chrome-faced rings seat very quickly if the cylinders are machined properly. They are usually done wearing-in by 100 miles. The goal of ring and cylinder seating is that they both wear the other smooth at the same rate. In other words, both rough new surfaces become smooth at the same time, because once one surface becomes smooth it will stop wearing the other surface. You ideally want the cylinder to become smooth just as the ring is becoming smooth. It is no big deal if the ring becomes smooth before the cylinder does, it just means a little more ring wear. However a cylinder that becomes smooth before the ring does is big trouble. This relationship of "which part wears first" is largely determined by the cylinder honing finish and how it matches the ring finish and composition. Meaning your machinist is in charge. What oil you use in the engine or how hard you drive it only speeds up or slows down the wearing process. Given proper cylinder finish, proper ring seating will be achieved sooner or later. Drive like a bat out of heck with crude oil and your rings will seat properly and fast. Drive like Miss Daisy and your rings will seat properly and slow. I tend to shoot for the middle. But again, I think your rings are totally fine. Your problem is likely PCV or valve stem seals. Most likely valve stem seals. The hard nylon deflector-type valve stem seals from Fel-pro are defective and do not fit the valve tightly. Some engine builders overlook this and install them anyway and the result is an endless oil burner. It'll carbonize your cylinders and valves really badly too. I went through that the hard way on an engine of my own. Bad valve stem seals usually cause the most oil burning on hot engine startup. Mine mad a massive blue cloud on every hot start. Also....using 1 quart of oil every 3000 miles is about as good as these engines get. That was pretty normal back then. Even 1 quart every 1000 miles was not unusual at the time.
	1955 Packard 1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 7:14am
	Even today most manufacturers won't replace an engine for oil burning unless it's getting under 800 miles to a quart! That's what Ford told a friend of mine about 8-10 years ago anyway. He took it to another dealer and traded it in after a little over a year of driving, after starting to complain about six months after receiving a new Taurus and going back and forth with the dealer then Ford for another six. It was using a quart about every 1000 miles. Most of the old engines used non-detergent oil because they had no filter. All cars and trucks used a four point engine mounting system until the mid to late 50s, AMC until 63. The reason is the engines didn't use a filter. Every year or so the owner was expected to drop the pan and clean the sludge out of the bottom. Non-detergent oil let sludge settle every time the engine was turned off and cooled down, detergents keep trash suspended in the oil so the filter can catch it. All AMC V-8s used a full flow oil filter, the sixes (only made the 196 OHV/L-head after 1956) had the oil filter optional until about 1960-61. Oil filters were invented by Purolator in the mid 20s (patented in 1923 - Purolator is a play on "Pure Oil Later"). Bypass add-on filters like the old 196 used until the last year of its life... Those do work well -- no 196 I ever took apart had any more discernible bearing wear than engines I've built with full-flow filters.
	Frank Swygert

Lyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/17/2014 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 772	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 10:03am
	The problem does not seem to be piston ring or valve seal by your tests. I agree valve seals, PCV or oil hold up in the top of the head(s) flooding the seals. Burning oil is not unusual but it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. Were I live, if you have a visible amount of exhaust they are going to make you take the vehicle in for a "visual" emissions test (based on being 1988 or older). You fail that, then it's a fine and 30 days to fix and if not fixed they take the plates. So "here" I'd be trying to get it fixed to pass the test, don't know the regulations there. GM Dexos2 motor oil - newest GM standard burns with little to no visible exhaust emissions, wonder why they introduced that? Mind you it is only acceptable for use in 2011 and newer vehicles. Valvoline is stated to be working on a "backwards compatible" formula but just SM and SN, 2001 and newer. "Backwards Compatible" to the API means acceptable for all current standards - NOT OBSOLETE. Does us no good. Adding - you state the blue smoke billows going up hill. This lead me to think that you do have stranded oil in the rockers and the back drain holes are restricted or valve seals are missing, broken, not correct. Uphill means the oil is flowing to the back of the head. Edited by Lyle - Apr/09/2018 at 3:29pm

White70JavelinSST Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4867	Post Options Post Reply Quote White70JavelinSST Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 4:49pm
	Oil staying in the head can be caused by drain back holes partially plugged or fully plugged by chunks of the old rubber valve guide seals that broke off and were not removed when the seals were replaced.
	70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972

Lyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/17/2014 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 772	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 5:49pm
	And not the first time that a head gasket(s) had holes not punched or the punching not removed. Don't just trust it because it came out of the box. Every part has to be inspected, regardless if new, yes paranoid or prudent - whatever.

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 6:01pm
	I call it prudent, attention to detail. Trust but verify........... do that with any replacement part for any car, IMO.
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Bandana Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jul/26/2016 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 473	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bandana Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 7:38pm
	At this point, until I drive the car some i can't say for sure if it still uses oil and how much. The only thing I can say is that it still smoked like a freight train after I drove it up to the house. The valley pan / baffle had to help some, just keeping it from sucking oil into the carb. Hopefully switching to the straight 30W will help seal it up some as the mechanic insisted it would and maybe some of the tuning also helped. The fact that it still smoked bad after driving it up my driveway has me thinking about flooding the upper end with oil too. If the compression tests my mechanic did are correct it sounds like the rings may not be a problem. He also felt that the seals were in good shape - which is also supported by the fact that it doesn't smoke on start up. About the only thing left would be too much oil in the heads, probably puddling up near the back cylinders after going up a steep hill and getting into the rear combustion cylinders..? I'm going to ask him if he checked the drains and if not I will need to check myself.