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998 vs 727

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 9:54pm
I've owned many Jeeps, and multiple cars with MOPAR transmissions. They are tough transmissions. Remember, I worked in a shop for several years rebuilding and repairing automatic and other transmissions - actually did my first when I was about 15. MOPAR transmissions aren't junk and I can point to more than one with over 100,000 miles.
An 84 wagon we bought brand new went for over 100,000 miles - the rest of the car was run through the mill by my now ex but the transmission held up (even through my abuse before she got the car in the divorce)
Yes, Eagle had the lockup converter before 84. I know that for a fact and if you need proof, dig through some AMC TSMs............... 82 is a great example, and I have one on my shelf from 81, I believe.
The Eagle case is an AMC case - nothing better than any other 998. The extension housing is different, WAY different, of course, but the main case is basically an AMC designed MOPAR case.
Bane of every AMC? Inferior 998? Then why do they get put in race cars? Why are they a choice for performance? Why do other people want to swap TO them? You seem to be the only one who hates them but you have an intense hatred for AMC and MOPAR anyway, that's obvious.

So why did I work on cars for decades - in a shop next to I80 - all during the 70s and 80s and not see the rampant replacement of ignition systems as you claim? Because it never happened. The ignition system in my own SX4 had 160,000 miles and was ALL ORIGINAL. The ignition system in the 83 SX I'm now rebuilding is all original, about 100,000 miles on it, nothing replaced. The ignition system in the Eagle wagon I just sold-  all original, worked fine. The ignition system in the 84 wagon I owned back in the 80s, the module went bad, replaced it and it never failed again. 
You simply hate AMCs - so again, why are you here and why to you mess with something you hate so much? Simply so you can trash them and show us how bad they are?

>>common failure parts like the OEM SSI module and factory switches. These reveal to be symptoms of much bigger problems, like the control wiring for the dash. That's not a Ford issue, it's all AMC/Jeep poor wiring practices.<<
Huh? Switches? In the ignition system? Control wiring for the dash? Huh? They had the "computer" behind the right kick panel, otherwise there was nothing in the dash. It was a simple single set of wires that went from the ignition system module, etc. through the firewall to the box behind the kick panel. Never ever seen that wiring fail. Poor wiring practices? LOL - it was no different than any other car maker of that era. I've actually seen worse. The biggest problems I saw outside of failed modules was the connectors and that was a FORD thing for which they had service bulletins.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by DaemonForce DaemonForce wrote:

Originally posted by 1970390amx 1970390amx wrote:

All cases are the same as for as lock up or not. The valve body, stator support and input shaft is what changed. An eagle CORE cold have a lot of parts in it that are better than his original trans.

Oh look, this guy knows. Clap

I've seen people convert this transmission from 2WD to 4WD on more than one occasion so I'm sure the reverse is possible starting with an Eagle core. The Eagle case is a superior 998 casting but in my luck I have only found BAD cores similar to the OP's problem here. Sprague has never been my issue but the valve body is a headache. Use the Eagle trans case and maybe some internals but mainly use the donor case. That's the entire point of the swap. It's work and still a massive coin flip, usually effected by miles and where you find it, so pay attention. I wouldn't waste any more time with it than I have already but in this case it's either pick up an Eagle core, spend a TON of $$$$ trying to replace it with another inferior 998, play the waiting game or swap in a 727. Tough choice. Not. Come to think of it I've rarely seen these swaps done to the 727 but they still happen. No idea why.
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Junk ignition systems? LOL - you hate everything AMC, don't you? it's a FORD system identical to every single car Ford produced in the late 70s and 1980s.

The Ford ignition system is an iron plague. Every AMC owner I've ever met drastically changed their factory ignition system or suffered. Oddly, the engine side of the ignition system hasn't been my problem so much as common failure parts like the OEM SSI module and factory switches. These reveal to be symptoms of much bigger problems, like the control wiring for the dash. That's not a Ford issue, it's all AMC/Jeep poor wiring practices. I didn't even discover this until a month ago and I get to fix it this weekend. Thank God I didn't buy many of the crap female Packard terminals shipped by NAPA. Those are flat out $1/pc overpriced garbage. Brass plated 1599C for the win.
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Junk transmission? If that were the case then almost all Chrysler products would be there

You ever hear the phrase leave it where you found it? Ever crawl under a yard Jeep? Tell me what you see. The Chrysler automatic is the bane of every AMC ever. between the two I'd rather have the early BW auto or literally anything else. I would even consider the TH and I actually hate that thing. I replaced the 998 with a T-5 and haven't looked back. The only possible evolution from here is the AX-15 but I'll never find one.
 
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Some things will vary due to the lock-up converter being used by AMC in the early Eagles - I believe up through 1984.

Wait what? Usually I find early AMCs that didn't have the lockup system until 1984. Somehow my 1983 wagon was the exception to this and it is the only pre-1984 I've ever found to come out of Brampton. Why?
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

so you can convert a eagle 998 to 2wd by using the 2wd transmission parts meaning the output shaft and tailhousing? That makes more sense. The case isn't any different.? I had an eagle, but I left the trans in it when I scrapped it.

A buddy of mine did the 2WD conversion to his Eagle 998 and scrapped the car to make his Hornet move again. It sounds dumb but I'm sure he had good reasons. It worked out but his Hornet ended up in the scrapyard a year later and I never asked him about it. The Eagle 998 case is resilient but all of mine have been junk. The one I have left doesn't have a home and is rotting away in one of my trailers.
  I dont understand why you are even here.  Ive abused transmissions, and Ive broke them. I have a 79 AMX that has the original motorcraft ignition and that includes the module.....and the car is 39 years old. and it also has a 1974 998 TF in it and it has been drag raced at over 10 NAMDRA meets. and I can tell you that all has been done to it is a new converter and a rebuilt pump. due to cracking the TC hub.
I really wish you would leave.    99% of the stuff you say is nonsense.  I think you are a nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 10:49pm
If you were going to do anything other than just replace the 998 with another, I'd just go with an AW4 from a mid-90s Cherokee. 4-speed O/D and same bolt pattern... just need to wire up the Cherokee tranny box, change out the shifter, make a new tranny mount and shorten the driveshaft. I'm told some of the Hornet driveshafts might be the right length and bolt right up, but haven't verified that yet.  See the sticky for further details/

I have an AW4 here from a '94 Cherokee that I'm going to put in my '72 Javelin (replacing the 998) as soon as I get some time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amxmachine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 11:07pm
Where are you located i have a couple good cores in walton ny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 11:54pm
Divorce is a headache. Sorry.
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Bane of every AMC? Inferior 998? Then why do they get put in race cars?

I keep hearing this but the QA pass/check/fail tells me to avoid them. The 998 from an Eagle sees more abuse than any Mopar I've seen and because it's such a constant nightmare to fix one that has gone bad, I prefer the 727, which I will never find. Others have had lots of good luck with the 998. I have some luck with them but every few months it's a cash vampire, so it destroys itself, my bank account, job and social life if I so much as sneeze. The only answer to a transmission that can barely survive extremely brutal daily 1 hour trips at 70MPH on FLAT OPEN HIGHWAY is to simply discard it and move on to something more durable. Nobody should ever have to question that so don't start. I can't even give my 998 away.
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

You seem to be the only one who hates them but you have an intense hatred for AMC and MOPAR anyway, that's obvious.

This again? You're really better at talking about ideas than people. I didn't fight hard enough to acquire a 75 Dart, 67 Impala, 69 Plymouth or a 74 Charger so I'm going to focus my efforts on the AMCs. If the people selling those cars didn't make it so difficult to budge, maybe I would be elsewhere right now. Maybe the Eagle and Javelin would go to the scrapyard over another money pit. It's whatever.
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Huh? Switches? In the ignition system? Control wiring for the dash? Huh? They had the "computer" behind the right kick panel, otherwise there was nothing in the dash.

Yes, switches. Switches for lights, switches for the ignition system, accessories, warning chimes, breadboards(deleted), the original PCM(deleted) and switches for parts I can't figure out just yet. So far I need to verify the combination ignition switch, headlight switch, some strange AMC stamped switch behind the radio and another unknown AMC stamped switch between the dash and pillar behind the glove box that nobody has mentioned ever. Why else would I be going through this ball of wires tonight? The transmission is an easier gamble. Stick to those instead. Better yet, be this guy:
Originally posted by CamJam CamJam wrote:

If you were going to do anything other than just replace the 998 with another, I'd just go with an AW4 from a mid-90s Cherokee. 4-speed O/D and same bolt pattern...

Manual DIP triggers, manual valve body, Winters shifter and stress cradle for the win. My Javelin will be getting the same treatment when I have time again but soon. Too many hands in the cookie jar this season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/25/2018 at 9:40am
I too will vote for the 998/999. Have had poor durability in race use with the 727 and it is more expensive to build cause of that stupid drum weight. Would not use a 727 without spending a lot of money on a billet drum as I have personally watched 2 727's explode and tear the floor out of the car. Preferred is the 998 upgraded with 5 disc clutch and the pump drive with flats built by someone who knows what they are doing. Seen several behind strong 401's, low 11's in heavy cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smitty52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/06/2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by 1970390amx 1970390amx wrote:

My first question is what is wrong with the original case? Other than the servo bores being damaged I cant think of anything else that would trash a torqueflite case. Maybe dowel pin holes if bolts were loose. A 727 is not a direct bolt in,the driveshaft  will need shortened and the yoke is different. Dipstick and tube are different. Unless my motor was making huge horsepower I would stick with the 998. I dont know which planet set this trans has in it, There is one that has a lower first gear ratio, lower than a 727 first gear. Gives the car a better launch, kind of like having lower diff gears. Its a lighter trans that uses less HP to run. Some will complain that the converter is weak, simple enough to use a 32RH pump body and gears. This trans uses flats to drive the pump not slots that cause the hub to crack. If your builder cant set this trans up for 450HP he needs to find a new job. Should not cost a arm and a leg.

OK, I found a good case and brought it to the shop yesterday.  The guy took me into the back room and compared the old case to the one I brought in.  My terminology will suck since I know diddly about the inside of a tranny but, at the back of the case there was a perfect circle about .25 inches wide and the same deep.  It was worn by a collar about 3 inches in diameter  that rides on the mainshaft.  Perfect explanation huh?  :)  Anyway the new case was perfectly flat with no groove worn into it.  He is happy and so am I. 


















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81eagle88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/08/2018 at 2:49pm
Smitty52
Did you get the tranny issue fixed for the 360? Show the 28th at field, ..providing no blizzards, floods or tornados
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