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196 rebuild kit |
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Gregory64
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/20/2018 Location: 28709 Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Posted: Jan/29/2018 at 8:18am |
Can someone recommend the best source for a gaskets rings and bearings for my 1964 196? Thanks!
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9037 |
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Google "Best Gaskets". I don''t know their website URL. Hence the Google search. Best is a brand that has bought the license to many of the old Felpro gasket patterns. They make many if not most of the former Felpro (now antique) gaskets. Bearings and rings can be purchased from Kanter's Auto Parts in New Jersey. They also sell pistons and might have a crank or rods in stock. Egge Machine makes reproduction pistons in southern California and has some rings in stock.
Another option is to search on Ebay for AMC or Rambler 195.6 (or 196) gaskets and see what turns up. Very commonly there are old stock gasket sets being offered there. I should also mention that you can contact the AMC vendors like Galvin's Rambler Parts and see what they have in stock. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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Gregory64
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/20/2018 Location: 28709 Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Thanks, Joe!! I appreciate the information.
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ramblinrev
Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11453 |
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74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981) |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7519 |
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Kanter pulls together kits of the stuff you need. i caution you to check what you get though. there's a lot of confusion and mixing up of flathead vs overhead parts. more than once i got wrong and poor-quality parts from Kanter. and beware of refurbished used parts regardless of source...
kanter sent me flathead valve springs instead of OHV springs. they appear to be identical and either fits either application. however the flathead springs are 40lbs closed at the seat, and OHV 80 lb! now this isn't a high-revving engine but you dont want to build in additional limitations. i got an "oil pump rebuild kit" and the spring failed (soft) after 7 years. sounds like a long time, but it's not. this is a quality issue i don't blame Kanter for. it went soft, oil pressure dropped into the 40's, and i scored a bunch of bearings. the little mushroom cam followers ("tappets") wear fairly rapidly in this old engine. i strongly suggest buying new, not resurfaced, replacements from Kanter. the resurfaced set i had had too much metal removed and wore extremely badly, but oddly did not harm the cam. after buying new ones i measured refurb vs. new and the refurb/reground ones were .015" shorter -- all the surface hard metal was removed. i was lucky; cams are getting VERY hard to find. i actually found a brand new, never used Melling M61? i think? oil pump! under $100. (hint: if you want to 'get crazy' and have a can reground for improved breathing (it helps, but dont expect a lot!) you might find a FLATHEAD cam, which appears to be physically identical except the cam has more lift at the lobe, meaning there;s more metal there to be reground!) the only serious problems with this engine all relate to the cylinder head, cooling and head sealing. there's a simple fix for the cooling (drill a hole in the thermostat) but sealing needs i think extraordinary care to DO IT RIGHT. most inexpensive engine rebuilders use what is essentially a big belt sander to resurface the head and block deck. this is probably adequate for other engines -- it is simply not flat enough for this engine. every single 195.6 OHV i've torn down had at minimum hints of leakage between the siamesed cylinder pairs, where the gasket clamping area is about 1/4" wide. you really need, and pay extra for if necessary, milling or flycutting. and be very careful to clean out the headbolt holes, wire brush the bolts, test each one for no burrs, lubricate, and toque properly. i went with ARP studs, and will do that every time. it puts the torque at the top, at the nut and washer, not down int he block and subject to twist/untwist forces. that's the big issues in my experience. i'm sure there's more! lol. it's an oooooold engine! mine runs great, i'm very happy with it. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19592 |
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The main issue I've had with head sealing is that the new head gaskets all say "no sealer required", but on the 196 it IS required! I've used the spray on copper (preferred) or aluminum (still works well, I just prefer the copper...) spray-on sealer. If you don't have that Indian Head brush on shellac sealer works, and is what AMC would have used. I've only had a high mileage engine show signs of a little leaking between cylinders (almost all I've seen and torn down were over 100K miles... some closer to 150K). It can be an issue, but generally it's a warped head and not block. I've never had a 196 block decked, and never had sealing issues. It certainly doesn't hurt, and if rebuilding doesn't cost a lot more to have it done -- cheap insurance. I have nearly always experienced some "weeping" of the seal on the right side (dizzy side) of the engine -- even when using sealer. There is a thin sealing surface over there too. Luckily no water jacket or oil passages, just splash. I think what weeps some there is mainly oily gasses from inside the engine, but it will weep enough to make a few trails down the block over time.
I think Tom has the fix for head loosening -- studs. Can be a bear top put in. especially in the back, with engine in car. I like to stick a six in without the head as it reduces height and weight, but might not be able to do that with studs in the 58-63 American (64-65 shouldn't be an issue, nor any of the big cars). I'd still check torque every 10K miles or so or every third year to be safe -- maybe go up to 15K or fourth year. The 10-12K miles/every 3rd year is a MUST if you use head bolts instead of studs. I've gone around 14-15K between re-torques with no issues, but I re-torqued every other year when I was putting ~7K a year on one. Tuned twice a year -- major in spring with new plugs/points, adjust valves, torque head. Fall tune-up I usually just cleaned plugs and points, adjusted as necessary. Worked great for 14 years... rebuilt the engine at the 11-12 year mark. |
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Frank Swygert
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Gregory64
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/20/2018 Location: 28709 Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Thank you all for this very useful information. I recently purchased a very good running 232 so I've decided to put the 196 rebuild on hold for now. I think I'm prepared for the minor glitches on this install, thanks to many kind responses on this forum.
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ramblinrev
Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11453 |
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Have you got an American or a Classic?
American will take some careful refitting to stuff a 232 in. |
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74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981) |
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rocklandrambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/09/2013 Location: Nanuet, NY Status: Offline Points: 3953 |
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The 232 was optional on the '65 American so it should fit in the '64 too. However it would require a new 232 front crossmember or modification to the 196 mounts. Also it requires a short water pump and I believe the radiator mounts have to be changed.
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Past AMC's
1974 Hornet X (new) 1975 Gremlin X (new) 1964 Classic 660 Cross Country 1965 American 440-H |
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