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AMC 360 Limited RPM?

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Lyle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2018 at 8:05am
I think the problem in this case is restriction of getting air or fuel into the engine at WOT.
My wife's original 68 Javelin with 232 1B carburetor would scream to 55 to 60 MPH but then just ran out of fuel/air to flow though the engine. You could coax it to 85 MPH on the flats but hat was it WOT.
It did not have a tach but the problem was pretty clear.
Take any engine and restrict air or fuel and WOT and torque curve RPM move considerably. Other then putting a potato in the tail pipe that is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1982AMCConcord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2018 at 8:24am
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:

Three things:

1. The maximum RPM the engine can achieve at full throttle, no load. (Very high).
2. The maximum RPM the engine can achieve without damage . (Pretty high).
3. The RPM the engine makes the most power. (Pretty low).

Just because an engine is capable of winding itself up to very high RPM does not mean it will make good, usable power at that RPM, and it does not mean it is able to survive that RPM. 

Farmer Pete could walk out to his 2-cylinder 1939 John Deere model A, block the throttle open, and with no load on it get that long-stroke engine screaming at some scary high RPM. Assuming it doesn't explode, it will make less power than it makes at lower RPM because the torque just isn't there. Any load placed on it at all will cause it to immediately bog down to lower RPM where it has enough torque to hold the load. 

So the maximum RPM your engine can mechanically handle is significantly higher than the RPM at which your engine makes usable power. 


Good point.... but also.. doesn't the trans have a limiting factor in it as well. For instance.. where lock up comes on and where the shift points are set?

Also.. I gotta say guys... the pre-programmed TBI packages aren't sold with high performance in mind. Many of the tunes are very very tame and are very similar to many stock GM tunes. While they will turn over and start up cold no problems... they are often tuned for MPG and reliability. If the computer isn't tuned for an upgraded cam... then the programming isn't taking advantage of the cam and isn't adding fuel.. combine this with a TBI that's too small... performance in a basic TBI FI package like this can often be anemic. I have owned a 1993 Caprice TBI for 19 years... I did as much as I could to it before it needed reprogramming... and while there was some improvement... the stock programming will only adapt so far.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2018 at 8:57am
I think the OP said his vehicle has a manual trans. In which case the transmission (theoretically) is NOT a limiting factor.

Rpm is a function of air flow. The limits, then, are restrictions on either the intake side or the exhaust side (assuming fuel and/or spark aren't going away at rpm).

The cam will determine how much power you make and at what rpm, but a cam such as an Edelbrock Performer will NOT make your engine "throttle out" before 5000 rpm...as long as your intake and exhaust aren't restricting engine operation. Now, an SP-2P intake, or a Holley Z-series intake, with their small runners, might keep the rpm's down due to their high-velocity, low volume design. But your average factory or aftermarket intake won't.

So then, if you eliminate fuel flow, spark, intake manifold and exhaust system as the problem, and if your engine has a healthy valve train and pistons/rings...where is the restriction that keeps your engine from turning 5 grand?

Congratulations. You have your answer.

If the other systems aren't up to snuff, and you're sure you haven't wiped any cam lobes, the process of elimination takes you to your answer.
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1982AMCConcord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2018 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Buzzman72 Buzzman72 wrote:

I think the OP said his vehicle has a manual trans. In which case the transmission (theoretically) is NOT a limiting factor.


Ah.. sorry.. I missed that part! My bad! I didn't read the entire thread... just skimmed it! Thanks for pointing that out Buzz! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/27/2018 at 9:18am
Originally posted by DaemonForce DaemonForce wrote:

I was going to say, unless he's out to make the OTHER kind of 360, which is similar to the fat bore skinny stroke recipe I have in mind for my first V8 build, none of this action really makes any sense. Assuming the typical WPC treatment and other requisites are being made to get this thing survivable at high winding RPM, it's just not going to hold there. The 5K RPM and cam aren't the stumbling blocks here, it's getting more air and fuel into each cylinder to make more power and even then, we're still looking at a possible dead zone or whatever is being described because this engine makes the majority of its power at lower RPMs.

If you want to make a high RPM AMC screamer, here's what you do: Start with a 401 block. That's it. That's really all there is to it. I don't know if 9.2 pistons would be right for that new geometry but assuming you want the cam to come alive later, custom grind it .450/.450 with -8, 10, 30, 0 and retard it 2º for maximum effect. Torque curve is ~400 flat up to 4700 and power should be 200 at cruise and will peak around 5500. It's a bit screwball but good for scaring the JDM kids on weekends. Embarrassed
Alrighty now.
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