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58 American Steering Box

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andyleonard View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul/23/2017 at 8:51pm
Can't get all the play out of the manual steering box on the 58 American. I tried the set screw adjustment - no joy - and then removed a shim from the small cover and still have too much play. I removed the final gasket from the small cover and that was too much, things started binding up, so I put it back. So it looks like I either need a rebuild kit with bearings/bushings or - more likely - I need another box.

Question: What years/models can I pick from? What fits? Can I use a power steering box with no pump?

Thanks.
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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2017 at 1:55am
steering boxes are trickier than they seem. did you follow the TSM procedure precisely?  how are you checking it? 

the pre-64 Americans have *built in* play -- in the complicated linkage between the pitman arm and the tie rods. that is set by the bearing cups screwed into the ends of the linkage. that thing is unlike any other car i've worked on, where the steering linkage is usually just a forged rod with three holes in it. 

the only way to set steering gear is with the pitman arm REMOVED or the linkage removed from the box. the preload is set with the steering gear exactly straight, because the sector is cut so that the clearance is set near zero, for preload, at that one point, only. off center, there's substantial "play", that's designed in, and required.

the "slop" in the linkage surprised me. i've studied this suspension design a lot, and was puzzled by this "feature". i'm fairly sure it has to do with the design for crowned roads -- which basically don't exist any more -- and the odd tie rod end position (inside the steel wheel). the short of it means that pothole bump steer is lessened on it's way tot hat giant steering wheel.

these are not modern cars! i apologize if you've done this by the book, but you didn't say if you did, or not.

a worn bushing will make it unadjustable. when i diassembled mine for reasons similar to yours, that the pitman arm bushing had been replaced with a custom-turned part. the plate or body (i forget now, it was 8 years ago) had been bored out. so i had to make a custom bushing on a lathe. it worked out fine, but it's not a tight box.

mine's filled with 90 weight, not grease. it seeps only slightly after 8 years, since it wasn't meant to hold oil, but it sure drives nice.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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andyleonard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyleonard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2017 at 10:29am
Thanks. Yup, tuned by the TSM, adjusting the box clearance by adjusting the setscrew and/or removing shims from the sideplate. Oddly, unlike the ZF boxes I'm used to on BMWs, there's no "high spot" at dead center. I'm pretty sure it's the bushing you mentioned.

The play is for sure in the box and none in the linkage, despite the odd setup with the cones and springs.

If I don't have the energy to make parts for this box and want a replacement, what are my choices? What other years/models will interchange? Can I use a PS box with no juice?
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MARTINSR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINSR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2017 at 9:13am
I am going through the same thing. I have been driving my 59 American every single day for the last 6 years and like my gray hair coming a little at a time and not noticed, so did the steering slop. What I really can't believe is that I had never aligned it on the rack at work. I align cars at work (auto body repair) and had never put my own car up there, barber needs a hair cut? Anyway, we are slow at work and I came in and drove Marge (my American) up on the rack and found that the alignment was terribly out. It was "straight" relating side to side but had negative caster! HOLY CRAP, duh, no wonders it wandered. I was blown away to find that my alignment machine had my American in it's specs, very cool. Marge drives like a completely different car now (duh) and the only problem being the sloppy steering box. I have an extra box so I could maybe send it out to be rebuilt but from what I am reading here that sounds like a waste of time? 

Brian
1959 Rambler American daily driver. And I mean EVERY SINGLE day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINSR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2017 at 9:15am
1959 Rambler American daily driver. And I mean EVERY SINGLE day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyleonard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2017 at 10:33am
Good data! Mine goes on the laser rack Mon AM and I fear for what they'll find. I've done a quick and dirty string alignment here but..... Between the wheel spacers I'm using for the wire wheels and the relocated rear axle and the packs of shims evident in front, I'm thinking the front chassis arms are bowed outward. Car has all original paint and never hit, but still.

I need the play out of the steering box. The rest of the ride isn't that bad, although some heavier shocks and maybe a sway bar or 2 is in the future.

We'll see.
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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2017 at 11:41pm
you can probably just replace the bushing. mine had been modified, but no reason to believe yours has been. i have no idea if the part is available, but i bet few people rebuild these so likely the supply of parts isn't used up.

it's AMC Kenosha HOmecoming weekend, so all of the suppliers will be out standing in the muggy weather not answering the phones.

the work wasn't hard to do, in fact sort of pleasant. i don't remember what else i did in there, or if there were other parts to replace.

i dont think anything interchanges with it, but i've never tried very hard. i just somehow assume it's another one of those Nash things.
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2017 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by MARTINSR MARTINSR wrote:

I am going through the same thing. I ... I have an extra box so I could maybe send it out to be rebuilt but from what I am reading here that sounds like a waste of time? 

Brian

i dont think its a waste of time. the bushing wears out. its a plain bushing. even making one isn't a big deal (needs a lathe). might even find a generic replacement. and a spare box is the way to go.

nice car too!
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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