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AMC Model 15 spirit dl '82 axle code?!?!

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amcfool1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcfool1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/22/2017 at 2:31pm
hi, having said the above, I actually am going to be rebuilding an AMC15 in the near future, for my 77 Hornet AMX, 258/T5., w/.73 OD. Current ratio is 2.73, which makes OD useless anywhere below 75 mph, going to a 3.08. More money...more money..., it's ALL good.

btw, a Spirit/Gremlin with its short wheelbase and a mega horse V8 can sometimes be TOO much fun, that's why I kept/ and hotrodded my 258, Lunati cam, Harlan Sharps, 9.0-1, etc, still, a good cruiser, fast, but not too fast, keeps me out of trouble and/or jail!

Also, note that to do a proper V8 Swap, All things must be considered, as in V8 front coils, swaybars, radiator, new driveshaft, wiring harness, V8 rear leafs, ( 3 on 6s, 4 on V8s), etc, good luck, gz

If it was me, I would just hop up the 258, and drive happily ever after! :)
george z
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/22/2017 at 6:30pm
The whole OD/speed thing really should be brought down with wheel/tire spec because those sizes change quite a bit in that mess and we should be going through new tires at least every other year. A non-factory 284.2" L6 with a wide ratio T-5 and stock tires(27.7"?) on my factory Model 35 axle comes out to 1750RPM@70MPH with 2.72x gears or 2000RPM@70MPH if swapping to a 3.08x set. Swapping in a set of Ziex ZE950 tires would reduce the tire diameter to 26.0" making those numbers climb to 1875RPM@70MPH on the 2.72 set or 2120RPM@70MPH on a 3.08 set. God forbid I actually go the other way with tires and get a H/T or M/T set that puts overall diam around 30". Then I would be genuinely worried about a useless OD gear! Nuke
1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31

1983 American Limited
Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2017 at 1:25pm
I'd go with a 3.31 rear gear with that .73 OD at the least. My .70 OD was OK with a 3.08 (4.6L stroker, early AW4 auto/OD), but still had to be going over 70 to use OD. I switched to a 3.55 gear (stock for XJ, 4.0L, AW4) and gained an average of 3 mpg. With the five speed's lower first gear 3.08 will work a bit better than it did for me. I think the 3.31, being sort of between 3.08 and 3.55, might be the sweet spot for performance vs mileage, at least with the auto. With four forward gears before OD you would be fine with only using 5th at higher highway speeds.

The 15 is tougher than most think. If you're running typical street tires not much bigger than stock you will always spin tires, not shock the axle too much. Start running wider, stickier tires, limited slip and using traction control, and you can tax the AMC 15.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2017 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by amcfool1 amcfool1 wrote:

hi, having said the above, I actually am going to be rebuilding an AMC15 in the near future, for my 77 Hornet AMX, 258/T5., w/.73 OD. Current ratio is 2.73, which makes OD useless anywhere below 75 mph, going to a 3.08. More money...more money..., it's ALL good.

btw, a Spirit/Gremlin with its short wheelbase and a mega horse V8 can sometimes be TOO much fun, that's why I kept/ and hotrodded my 258, Lunati cam, Harlan Sharps, 9.0-1, etc, still, a good cruiser, fast, but not too fast, keeps me out of trouble and/or jail!

Also, note that to do a proper V8 Swap, All things must be considered, as in V8 front coils, swaybars, radiator, new driveshaft, wiring harness, V8 rear leafs, ( 3 on 6s, 4 on V8s), etc, good luck, gz

If it was me, I would just hop up the 258, and drive happily ever after! :)

Sold off the crank and rods to the 258, it was in pieces when I bought it anyways. The car belonged to my buddy's family. They tore it apart and decided years later it wasn't worth the drama and sold the whole package to me at a steal. 

Spirit suspension won't hold up... ok hmm, all this makes sense. This build will be the death of my wallet. R.I.P. Dead
Tempted to use the '96 4.0 I have laying around...

The good 'ol local junkyard has many wranglers and even 2 360 matadors so finding a 20 won't keep me up at night. 

I'm lost on all the mathematic calculatory of gear ratios to wheel size to RPM, young gun trying to get a grasp of knowledge. This is the place to be Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcfool1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2017 at 11:15pm
hi, Mr farna, thank you for your input, yes, 3.31 would be optimal , but, where to get those? That is the "carrier break" for the AMC15/Dana35. Everywhere I've looked, one may purchase the 3.07, or the 3.54 and up.  No 3.31 anywhere in sight. My current axle is the (stock) 2.73, not bad at all with the new T5, (from MDL, Modern Drive line, in Idaho). they offer the T5 in any configuration you want, and have their own tailsection,which will put the shifter anywhere you want, within a 10" space. That's why i went with them, that custom tailsection, put the shifter exactly, ok maybe a 1/2" off, from the stock Hornet SR4, so, no cutting trans tunnels, etc, Cost a pretty penny though, over $3K, Hey, you only live once!
Anyway, the "stock" T5 OD is .63, I paid extra to have them build me a .73 OD, they also offer, for a couple of hundred more $$, a .80 OD, which they call their "road race" OD, still hemming/hawing whether I should have gone that route, and just keep the factory 2.73.
So, Point being, unless I can find some 3.31 gears, I am going to go with the 3.07s. I have had the car on our local Interstate, (I81), and at 70, we have 1800 rpm. the 3.07/08, should move it up to just about 2000 rpms. We can't have it all, we do what we can, life is good.
thank you, gz
george z
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcfool1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/23/2017 at 11:47pm
yup, that 96  4.0 would be your best/easiest/least expensive bet. just run the numbers, stock 80s 258, hp, max, about 110-120, stock 96 4.0, hp about 190-205, almost double stock! and no chassis mods required, and hey, you can keep your amc15! btw, the Matador amc20s will NOT work in a Spirit. again, the small body AMC20s do exist, but they are VERY hard to find, If you have a line on a few, let me know! I would like one myself! :)
One of our forum members, has a Spirit with the 4.0. I have seen it, and that thing is FAST!
I have a 79 Spirit myself, bone stock, 232 (last year for the 232) 1bbl/904, nice car, but can barely get out of it's own way on any kind of hill, but, hey, it is what it is, love is love not fade away!
again, good luck, gz
george z
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 6:17am
AMC used a 3.31 in the AMC 15, but it doesn't appear to be made any more. Can find it for the AMC 20, but not the 15/D35. Sort of strange... but that ratio hasn't been used in anything of late. If you can keep 2000 rpm in OD while cruising you should be good. My 4.6L with a torque cam would easily pull 70 with the 3.08 gear and .70 OD, but it was only turning around 1750-1800 rpm. The motor would pull it, but it was working a bit to do it, so dropping to 3.55 increased mileage -- probably only 1-2 mpg on the highway, another 1-2 due to less work taking off, about 3 mpg overall. Just a couple hundred more rpm puts the motor enough higher in the torque range to make a difference! Nothing wrong with running 75-80 when you can, but I didn't want to shift a lot between 3rd and OD in the 65-75 range. Shifting into OD at 55-60 is what I want to do with the four speed auto, with a five manual going between 4th and 5th isn't as bad. My auto is manually shifted with a switch, but would have "hunted" a good bit if connected to the computer.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73Gremlin401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Buzzkill Buzzkill wrote:

[QUOTE=amcfool1]

The good 'ol local junkyard has many wranglers and even 2 360 matadors so finding a 20 won't keep me up at night. 



Quick note - the 20s out of a big body AMC (Ambassador/Matador/Rebel) while the internal guts of the differential is the same as a 20 out of a Gremlin etc.,, externally they are totally different, so you don't want to go there unless you want to open that wallet even more :)

On the other hand....while you're at the junkyard, a few pics of the Mattys that are there would be super helpful for yours truly. Thanks!!
73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727.
81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd
83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2017 at 6:44am
As far as I know Wranglers didn't get an AMC 20, but CJs did. Wranglers may have used a Chrysler 8.25" axle as an HD option, but most would just have a D35. There is an HD D35 with slightly larger diameter axles and bigger end bearings -- they may all use that (axle I pulled from an MJ was the HD version). That would still be a good heavier axle than the AMC15/D35. The D35 is actually a bit stronger than the AMC 15 used in cars, has slightly larger axle shafts even in standard form, IIRC. The Wrangler and XJ Cherokee axles are a bit wider than AMC small car axles, you would have to use deep offset wheels like the Eagle did (Eagle axles are same width as Wrangler/XJ).
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2017 at 9:29am
CJ, wrangler, its all the same to me. ( I just looked into it, and I'll leave the original statement but boy was I wrong about the CJ-Wrangler. Please don't shoot!) The 15 is about as wide as the narrow 20, or at least I'm guessing from the measurement I took it's right there at 50 or so.

Those matadors have been there for years and will do when I go. I just need to figure out how to post pics.

Very tempted to use the 4.0 I have now. Shame I sold the harness and ecu for it, and also those rods and crank from the 258. Stroker Turbo anyone?

Edited by Buzzkill - Jul/25/2017 at 5:54pm
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