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'61 American - Holley Carb issues

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American Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote American Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: '61 American - Holley Carb issues
    Posted: Jul/25/2015 at 7:49pm
Greetings...

I am having some persistent and probably terminal problems with the Holley 1908 FC carb on my stock '61 American, with the 196 OHV Six.

Symptoms include: a nasty flat-spot / bog after getting under way ( usually when trying to accelerate after shifting up into 2nd ),  surging / bucking when trying to hold steady throttle at 35-50 MPH, and leaking.

Both the bowl cover and carb body are fairly warped / "dished" from having the bowl screws over-tightened in previous years by previous wrenchers, and the needle-seat "fluid-bolt" is no longer able to be tightened enough to seal, as the female threads in the body are stripping.

Are there any other carb options for this engine ?  I would like to keep it stock, but I haven't run across any other 1908 Rambler carbs, and would expect them to have warpage issues too.

Had anybody tried the replacement carbs from Daytona Carb that are advertised in "Skinned Knuckles" ?

I am no longer comfortable driving the car, with it dripping fuel...   Cry

Thanks...



American Frank
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pacerman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/25/2015 at 8:35pm
If by Daytona carb you mean the 1904/1908 reproduction carbs, I have not used one of those carbs but if you can be sure the linkage will work, I think one of them would be an excellent idea.  A Carter RBS should drop right in also.  Be sure you get one with the correct Rambler linkage.  A Carter AS carb would also work but they are relatively scarce and there is not much info published about how to tune one of them.  I have one on my 1963 Classic project car but have not messed with it yet.  Joe
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uncljohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2015 at 3:19am
I have been rebuilding, tuning and adjusting my own carburetors for years. Frankly a lot of years. Basically working on the premise that I can screw things up cheaper than the average mechanic and when it comes with dealing with a 40 or 50+ year old car and it's technology which ain't hardly rocket science, a screw driver and a vacuum gauge go a long way towards essential tools required, well them and something to read that tells me how it works and what to adjust.
The last of which can be down loaded from sites like this:
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carburetor-Manuals_ep_274.html
as a pdf
I just do not find carburetor adjusting to be difficult. And many if not darned near all of the carburetors used on American 6 cylinder in line engines to be pretty much straight forward.
Copy the manual and obtain an vacuum gauge and locate a manifold vacuum tap some where on or around either the intake manifold or the gasket assemblies used to mount the carburetor on to the intake or even some carburetors have taps on the for both manifold and ported vacuum and the manual will tell you where to find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2015 at 5:56am
Originally posted by uncljohn uncljohn wrote:

I have been rebuilding, tuning and adjusting my own carburetors for years. Frankly a lot of years. Basically working on the premise that I can screw things up cheaper than the average mechanic and when it comes with dealing with a 40 or 50+ year old car and it's technology which ain't hardly rocket science, a screw driver and a vacuum gauge go a long way towards essential tools required, well them and something to read that tells me how it works and what to adjust.
The last of which can be down loaded from sites like this:
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carburetor-Manuals_ep_274.html
as a pdf
I just do not find carburetor adjusting to be difficult. And many if not darned near all of the carburetors used on American 6 cylinder in line engines to be pretty much straight forward.
Copy the manual and obtain an vacuum gauge and locate a manifold vacuum tap some where on or around either the intake manifold or the gasket assemblies used to mount the carburetor on to the intake or even some carburetors have taps on the for both manifold and ported vacuum and the manual will tell you where to find it.
Assuming the carburetor is in decent rebuildable condition.    but how do you do this when its warped, holes are stripped, missing parts that are not in the rebuild kit?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2015 at 8:14am
The 1908 carb is capable of being totally worn out. I think that carb is totally worn out. Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2015 at 10:57am
My 63 American had a Holley 1909 on it, not the 1908. AMC used several different carbs on the 196 OHV over the years and models (American vs. Classic). ANY of them will work on any 196 OHV. The carbs for autos usually had a dashpot on them, but are otherwise usually the same as manual shift. I wouldn't hesitate to use an auto carb on a manual shift engine and remove the dashpot. A manual carb on an auto might have some stalling/stumbling issues on deceleration, but should run well.  So if you can get ANY better condition 1V carb from a 196 you should be good. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2015 at 11:00am
Originally posted by pacerman pacerman wrote:

The 1908 carb is capable of being totally worn out. I think that carb is totally worn out. Joe


My 63 American had a Holley 1909 on it, not the 1908. AMC used several different carbs on the 196 OHV over the years and models (American vs. Classic). ANY of them will work on any 196 OHV. The carbs for autos usually had a dashpot on them, but are otherwise usually the same as manual shift. I wouldn't hesitate to use an auto carb on a manual shift engine and remove the dashpot. A manual carb on an auto might have some stalling/stumbling issues on deceleration, but should run well. So if you can get ANY better condition 1V carb from a 196 you should be good.


Pretty much said it here.
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American Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote American Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2015 at 12:29pm
Thanks for all the replies thus far.

Carb in question has issues that are beyond "proper adjustment", such as stripped threads and warped castings due to insuffcient casting thickness / stiffening ribs, etc.

I've been working on cars, trucks, ag equipment for well over 40 years now, and usually do not run into stuff I cannot fix, except in cases where the original engineering and / or materials did not stand the test of time.

There are other carbs that fall into this category, such as ANY pre-Depression die-cast carb (swelling / crumbling pot-metal), and even some post-war carbs, such as the Rochester B used on Chevy sixes ( major problems with bowl / cover warpage ).

When I started driving, I had Ford Falcons, so I got a fair amount of experience with the 1904 Holley used by Ford.

I am not that familiar with Rambler / AMC, so that is what motivated my inquiry about the Daytona replacement carbs or other carb options.

The '61 Rambler application has some challenges, due to the low hood-line and the unique throttle-rod connection.

heck, if I had more head-room and traditional rod-linkage to the carb, I'd slap a Carter W-1 from a Stovebolt Chevy or Carter BB from one of my flat-head MoPars on there and be done with it.

But, I'd rather stay as close to stock as I can.

Now, if someone told me - "Sounds like the carb carb on your car was badly abused, better ones are out there, just be patient", or, "Yeah, those 1908 FC carbs all tended to warp and leak..." that would let me know whether or not to seriously pursue finding another good 1908.

As for the Daytona Carb, it looks like a slightly re-engineered descendant of the 1900 series Holley, with beefed-up castings, and a variety of throttle-arm options (including the "Rambler arm"), and even a variable main-jet, if desired. The air=horn will take the Rambler's stock oil bath air-cleaner. The biggest downside for me is that they are all manual-choke carbs. Also unknown (to me) is the quality of the product. They are being manufactured down in Argentina. At $299 + S&H, it's not a cheap gamble.

I do know that the carb on my car is not safe, due to fuel leakage onto the hot engine. It's not worth risking a car fire.

I will check-into some of the other carb possibilities mentioned in this thread...

And if I should realistically give-up hope of finding a NOS or decent 1908 FC, I'd like to know that too...

Thanks for your input !
American Frank
1961 American Custom Convertible 6107-2
P72 Frost White / Black Top
R154 Ravine Medium Gray Metallic Dash
Red & grey low-back "bucket" seats

1961 American Super 4dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenosha62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2015 at 3:10pm
I have 3 or 4 1908 carbs, parts, etc that are in pretty good shape (one was working last summer when I took it off) you can contact me at Kenosha62@comcast.net and I can send you pictures. let me know what parts you need and I'll dig them out.
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