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77 Hornet backfired now wont start

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uncljohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2015 at 10:29pm
Just my 2 cents for what it is worth, you are frustrated by this thing and need to have a fresh start.
This is what I suggest, but only because you have been fussing with this so long that too many things could have gotten over looked.
If you can turn this thing easily by hand you need to know the reasons why.
I would suggest stopping where you are at the moment and start fresh by removing all of the spark plugs.
Why?
Because with the all removed you would have no compression and it should be easy to turn.
Then I would suggest removing both valve covers
Why?
Because of all the things you can do, things that will be seen when you try to turn the engine by hand, will tell you if everything is hooked up correctly ( more or less)
And remove the distributor cap.
Why? As you turn it by hand the rotor should turn indicating some pieces are indeed hooked up correct.
What your are looking for is movement of the rocker arms as you turn the engine.
Two full turns of the crank shaft, every rocker arm should have gone through one compelet operational cycle.
All this is doing is confirming internal parts are indeed hooked up correctly.
In addition the rotor of the distributor should make 1 full revolution for each two turns of the crank shaft.
All of these things can be seen while turning the crank shaft by hand.
If you look at the rocker arms for the #1 cylinder you ought to be able to set them so that both valves are closed and the rocker arms are side by side. This is the number one position. It can be seen. At the same time the timing markers on the harmonic balancer should be lined up at
TDC also indication the number one position. The Rotor should also point at the number one spark plug lead on the distributor cap.
If any of these things are not true, then you are either doing something wrong or something critical is broken. It is a good decision making time.
Once you determine that these things are true, you should take the battery out, or take it out before you start and get it charged. Because when you are done with this, take a compression check on all 8 cylinder so you know what is going on.
95# is not the best, I've seen worse, but in this case you want to know what each cylinder is not just one of them.
Write it down.
If you have the chance, take a "Wet" Compression test secondly. Once you have the first one done, squirt some WD40 in each cylinder. Why that, why not, you are frustrated, it is not what I would use, but in the circumstances you are working in, WD40 will work.
If all the cylinders come out some where around 100# +/- 20 or so, at least you would know that compression is o.k. (ish)
But some opf this stuff you are guess at out of frustration and that is not going to help you fix it!
If you can turn the engine so the rocker arms for the #1 cylinder are showing the valves are closed, the rotor is pointing at the # 1 cylinder and I am assuming points right this second, sorry did not read back through and they are set correctly the thing should start providing it has gasoline.
Put it all back together and if everything seems to check all right, pour about a quarter a cup of gasoline straing into the carburetor and it should try to start. Put the air cleaner back on before you try starting.
If nothing happens, and it is dark out side, remove the distributor cap and again I am assuming points and if I am wrong, sorry, to tired to read back through try to start the car while looking at the points as the engine is being cranked. If you see sparks at the point contacts, the condenser is bad, replace it.
Check back if you want, but I have been in your shoes exactly and once I was thoroughly this was the only way I could get out of the jam I back into.
I needed to know what was happening and this is straight Bone Head 101 shade tree mechanicene.
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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toolmanxiii View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toolmanxiii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2015 at 8:30am
Originally posted by Thephysicist Thephysicist wrote:

so no one has even come to look at it and I've been trouble shooting it. All the wiring seems to be working. I have spark and compression on the cylinders. But it doesnt sound like it is even attempting to start. It has back fired a few times. The timing seems to be okay. I did the chopstick down the first cylinder to make sure I wasnt 180 off. The only thing that concerns me so far is that I can spin the crankshaft fairly easy now. Before I needed to use a wrench but not it spins just by spinning the fan pulley. I'm thinking it might be something bad but I have no idea. I kind of need to fix it or get rid of it because I have a back up vehicle and I'm not supposed to have two cars at my apartment. I've actually had a few emails of interest, but only from people out of state or people who think I'll take 500 dollars. I'll take a thousand, which will still put me at a loss, but its hard to sell a car that doesnt run. Gonna keep working on it till it runs or it sells.


Those 2 sentences do not belong together... If you get a back fire through the carb or exhaust  it means the plug is firing at the wrong time .
And all the chopstick test does is show the piston is at TDC . not what position the valves are in . and easy test is place your finger over the plug hole and turn the engine by hand and it should try to blow past your finger . if that checks then look where your rotor is pointed . make a mark on the housing. install the cap and see where #1 wire is . advance the timing according to where things lined up . Advance is counterclockwise on the dist . wires run clockwise .18436572.  left bank is 1357 right is 2468 . front to back . Ive run worn out engines that showed 75lb's compression .
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)
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Thephysicist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thephysicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2015 at 5:00pm
So i took the valve covers off. Everything looked fine. Double checked the firing order. And then tried starting fluid. Started right up. Havent been using starting fluid because my roommate suggested it and I didnt want him to be right. Of course fix one thing break two more. Oil started leaking from between the timing cover and oil pan and I found i didnt put the gasket in. And worse the oil is full of water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2015 at 6:36pm
Well after you fix the issues with the timing cover and change the oil and filter
you have it zeroed in on.
 
It's the carb or fuel and a slim chance it's the fuel pump.
 
That's it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toolmanxiii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2015 at 7:06am
is there fuel in the carb ? open the choke plate and then open the throttle. you should see 2 sprays of gas one in each venturi . if not . is there gas in the filter ? is it plugged ?  if no to both are the lines on the pump correctly hooked up ? is there fuel at the pump ? last is there gas in the tank ? 
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2015 at 7:40am
what ever sequence you did things in, the sequence was apparently logical to you and made sense so that you could evaluate the end results and understand what was going on. Unfortunately a conclusion might very well mean there are other problems.
The engine ran after you sprayed starter fluid into it.
There is nothing wrong with using starter fluid, there is however a right time and a wrong time.
A right time is like this time you used it. Using it verified the decision you made that on the things you checked nothing seamed really wrong, because it ran. You did not say how long it ran, but if ran for a very short time that it may mean fuel was not getting to the carburetor.
And now you need to find out why.

And I guess you need to find out where the water came from too.

Edited by uncljohn - Apr/07/2015 at 7:45am
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thephysicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2015 at 9:25am
It actually ran for a while. Battery was close to dead. Charged it for a bit, ran for about 5 minutes to make sure that problem was over with. I'm fairly certain the water is coming from a bad timing cover gasket. The oil is coming from a missing front seat on the oil pan. I just need a gasket set and I think those parts will be good. And another oil flush and new filter like was suggested. Also my distributor won't hold down tight enough to keep from spinning. From the looks of it this timing cover is not the exact same shape as the old one. The old one had an indented distributor slot and this new one sticks off the timing cover. The hold down also sticks up a female canine and won't hold it down too tight. I'll figure something out. I'm not really any further forward than I was a month ago but I know it works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/07/2015 at 1:19pm
Water could also be coming from waterpump seep hole.
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