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INTSTRUMENT CLUSTER PROBLEMS 67 ROGUE
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Rogue Rod View Drop Down
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Points: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: INTSTRUMENT CLUSTER PROBLEMS 67 ROGUE
    Posted: Sep/13/2014 at 11:07am
Folks: My instrument cluster is suddenly not working properly. The turn signal indicators work, the oil and alt idiot lights work, the hi beam indicator works, the cigarette lighter works, the 4 way flashers work. The gas gauge does not work and the instrument cluster lights on the right side do not work. They both stopped working at the same time. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what the problem may be and what can be done or checked before yanking the cluster out. Or, what has to be done after removing the cluster. Thanks in advance to all replies. 
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You may have a combination of problems. Is the temp gauge still working? If not, the fuel and temp gauge are controlled by the Instrument Voltage Regulator attached to the back of the cluster. The lights may be as simple as burned out bulbs or a poor ground.
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Points: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2014 at 1:14pm
Ah!!! I should have mentioned that the temp gauge didn't work properly before (needle would never get close to the center of the gauge), so now I see the connection. Is the Voltage regulator a replaceable part from one of the Rambler suppliers? Cluster coming out tomorrow. 
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To be clear, are BOTH the fuel and temp gauges not working at all? The IVR powers both gauges so if it is the problem, both will show the same symptoms. If one gauge is not working while the other is showing some kind of reading, the IVR is not the problem.

The quick test for either gauge is to disconnect the sensor wire at the sensor and hold it to a good ground. With ignition on, the gauge should go all the way to full scale. If it does, suspect a sensor problem, or the ground to the sensor. If it doesn't, suspect a sensor wiring fault, or gauge fault.

The IVR in an American is in either the fuel or temp gauge - I can never seem to remember which one it is. To the best of my knowledge, nobody re-pops that type of IVR, but you can replace it with a 7805 linear regulator. Search the electrical section for "IVR" or "instrument voltage" There are lots of threads on the subject.


Did you check the bulbs in the instrument cluster? Did you check the fuses? It is common for the clips in the fuse block to oxidize. Pull all the fuses, clean the clips, then bend them inwards to ensure the fuse is held firmly.
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The IVR is built into the temp gauge. If the temp gauge malfunctions the fuel gauge will not work.
I have battled this issue many times.
If you have another fuel sending unit (for any amc) plug it into the wire at the tank and make sure to ground it.  Move the float and see if the gauge moves in relationship to empty, full.  If it does your sending unit or ground strap for it is bad.
If not then either the IVR in the temp gauge has failed, or the gas gauge points are stuck.
to test the IVR carfully loosen the gauge cluster and test the output side of the fuel gauge where the stud holds it to the circuit board.  The input side should be +-12V with key on (and round wiring plug in place) the output side should be about 5.4V going to the fuel gauge.  If it is not close to this , then find a replacement fuel gauge as dervicing the internal IVR is defficult.
Remember to always check your grounds first.  You can add additional ground jumpers for testing and even hard wire in grounds to fix problems.
The lights are most likely a seperate issue unless you have a frayed power wire in the main harness.
If this all checks out but the fuel gauge isnt working, the points inside are stuck or it could be burnt out. Remove the gauge from the cluster, carfully remove the face from the gauge by bending the three crimped areas around the edge.  Remove the face being careful to flex but do not bend the needle.  You can see the points are similar to ignition. make sure they move freely and you can even use a nail file to clean them.  inspect the windings for a burn out.  You can use a continuity test from the inside to the outside of the winding to check for a break.  about 50% of the time cleaning the points can fix this issue. While you have the gauge apart its a great time to repaint the needle with testers Orange paint.  Carfully replace the face and recrimp the three areas by lightly pushing with a srewdriver.
I hope this helps.


Edited by azfletch - Sep/14/2014 at 11:36am
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Points: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/14/2014 at 2:56pm
Thanks for all the advice to date. Neither the temp gauge or fuel gauge are working. Here is where I am at:
  • Neither the temp gauge or fuel gauges needles move at all when the power is on. 
  • Cluster is disconnected from the dash but still in the car and connected to power
  • voltage on both sides of the fuse for the gauges is 12V
  • voltage at the fuel gauge terminal is 12V (Terminal I according to the manual)
  • as per the manual, attached a test light to the sending unit of the temp gauge and it flashes. Cannot get a meter reading to determine if it is more or less than 5 volts. 
  • disconnected temperature sending unit wire on the engine and grounded it--temp gauge needle went up all the way
  • disconnected fuel gauge sending unit wire at the gas tank and grounded it--fuel gauge needle went all the way up.
  • temp sending unit was new last fall (just before putting the car away for the winter. It is properly grounded to the block. 
  • gas tank was serviced and sending unit cleaned and tested also last fall--was working after installing tank. Don't have a spare sending to test with.
  • with cluster disconnected from the dash, found burned out dash light. Just a coincidence that it quit as the gauge quit as azfletch suggested. That problem is resolved. 
Any suggestions before disassembling the guage as azfletch suggests. 
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Originally posted by Rogue Rod Rogue Rod wrote:

Thanks for all the advice to date. Neither the temp gauge or fuel gauge are working. Here is where I am at:
  • as per the manual, attached a test light to the sending unit of the temp gauge and it flashes. Cannot get a meter reading to determine if it is more or less than 5 volts. 
  • disconnected temperature sending unit wire on the engine and grounded it--temp gauge needle went up all the way
  • disconnected fuel gauge sending unit wire at the gas tank and grounded it--fuel gauge needle went all the way up.
Any suggestions before disassembling the guage as azfletch suggests. 


It's kind of hard to explain but the instrument voltage regulator works just as you found it does.  What you are seeing is the full 12 volts part of the time and nothing the remainder.  The average would be around five volts or so.  If you grounded both sensor leads and both the fuel and temp went full scale, it doesn't sound like you have a gauge problem.  Sounds more like a connection problem to me.  But Rogues are not my specialty.
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I agree with 6Pak. The gauges and the IVR are working properly, as are the sensor wires.

Your problem is at the sensors. Ground problems are very common at the fuel sensor. I would make sure you have a good ground connection to the body of the car. How old is the sensor? Maybe the float has sunk.

The common mistake with the temp sensor is wrapping teflon tape around it to seal the threads. This isolates the sensor from chassis ground and you will see the gauge stuck at cold all the time. Do you have a good engine ground?

These gauges work from 10-70 ohms, so any extra resistance from poor grounds makes a difference.
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Points: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2014 at 9:35pm
Folks: Thank you everyone for your replies. I have learned a lot. I have come to the conclusion as well that the sensors are the problem. Probably best to start there as it is a more economical fix. Gauge replacement seems complicated and hard to find parts. I have ordered the sensors and plan on a fix this weekend. I will post results. Thanks again.
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