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71 Vacuum Hose diagram/routing

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uncljohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2014 at 12:21pm
As far as I know at this writing that is an after market replacement and probably about 10 years old. The original would be all black plastic and the top would be pretty flat and would be almost impossible to find unless you scoured junk yards.
This part changed quite a bit during the manufactured years as the smog rules changed frequently. In 1970 there was NON at all in 73 and for sur by 74 there was another vent line for carburetor vent ducting.
 As time passed and the need for replacement items came up on a limited usage as AMC surely was compared to other manufacturers and also for certain a one year only item the OEM and aftermarket supplies just tapered out and disappeared.  Some OEM items are definatly made from un-obtainium.
As far as I am concerned, a one mans opinion.  When some one says they have a RESTORED CAR? If the smog items are not on it at all and a lot of aftermarket performance parts are? It is not restored and if that is what I am looking for, the price I was willing to pay for that car probably just was cut in half.
But that is my opinion.

70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71-SST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2014 at 12:31pm
I've had the car since 1977 with 22,000 miles on it then with this canister on it. Can anyone show the original for an early 71 ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2014 at 12:41pm
In my opinion, this is similar to what you would see:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5761/canister.jpg

I did not start seeing the other style until later years.
The only thing you can say for sure then if you have owned the car since 1977 then it is highly possible what is on it is a 1977 vintage part.

This is a case where lacking any other data, having a TSM for the year car you have will help validate what you are looking at.
I have parts of a pre 1970 TSM
A 1970 TSM and it's supplements
A 1974 TSM
A 1977 TSM
two 1980 TSMs and all suplements
and a MOTORS/ CHILTON COLLECTION of service literature that will take me from 1935 throu 1994.




Edited by uncljohn - Apr/18/2014 at 12:44pm
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71-SST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2014 at 3:35pm
I've got a tsm for 71 but it doesn't show a good enough picture of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2014 at 4:12pm
71 SST, I believe your canister is correct for a 1971. 

It bears noting that the EGR valve was not used in 1971, so delete that item, along with the hoses & switch from the diagram.

Automatics did not have the air pump in 1971, so you may need to delete all of that from the diagram, depending on what transmission you have.


Edited by scott - Apr/18/2014 at 4:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71-SST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2014 at 8:43pm
Scott your'e right, no egr, no air pump. I've looked pretty hard for another image with this canister in a 71 but no luck. Doesn't really matter I guess because this one does work. If I unhook it there's a bad smell out the tailpipes. Would just be nice to know for sure.
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/19/2014 at 6:34am
71 SST, my 71 Javelin has the exact same canister. Its been there since I bought the car in 1985, & shows no signs of having been changed out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 71-SST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/19/2014 at 7:37am
Two for two then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/19/2014 at 9:03am
The problem with trying to see to it smog is correct on early 70's models is that the information so important to know 40 years later was left out of the Service manual during those intervals. The charcoal canister pictured is one that I normally see as a replacement item in the 80's.  And like many people of the era, the information on the smog equipment and it's affects was limited at best and until such time the cars either were required to have them for the purpose of state smog inspections which took multiple years to become standardized if they existed at all the pieces were removed and thrown away as being some how detrimental to performance. And removing them had little or no impact in many cases as to a smog requirement.
A restored correct 70 AMC product complete with smog equipment is very hard to find now as the smog pump and it's mounting bracket were a one year only package and once gone, is gone. No one is reproducing the parts and smog accessory companies that materialized to supply OEM stuff rarely carried equipment for AMC cars anyway due to lack of popularity.
And if you are using a smog exempt status  these days, the stuff is still being removed.
I don't actually think I have seen a 71 to pay any attention to one. EGR, Smog pumps and Vapor recovery was not on the 70's at all except for a smog pump which was needed for standard transmission in 70 and at least 69.
All of my AMC collectible activity has been centered around those made from 1974 up through 1981.  Vacuum diagrams were not in the early TSM's so even in 1980 it was difficult to determine what a correct configuration was on a specific car in that there were 11 different 6 cylinder variations depending on automatic, standard, Federal, California, high altitude, and with Eagles, 3 rear axle ratio variations.  The did not even address Canadian for 1980 of which I am aware of 2 variations at least.  Nor when you look at an automobile data for smog does it include those for trucks, which some models of the Eagle were sold as in California.
Living in both California from 1978 on and Arizona the last 16 years both states required smog inspections un less you were smog exempt as a collector car.  And Arizona's smog exempt rules just came into play about 5 or 6 years ago, so when I built my 1980 Spirit it had to pass smog no matter what the configuration was in 1991 or 1992.  At which point I purchases a Fuel Injection conversion for it not so much as I wanted fuel injection but having it improved the breathing capability the same as installing a 4bbl carburetor at something better than 400CFM. EXcept the 4BBL would not pass smog and the F.I. came with a California CARB Smog Exemption certificate that made it smog legal at the time.  To the tune of $3500.00 for the package.
Today I can get a smog exemption on the car with a 4bbl that I could not get at the time.  And do the same performance enhancement for under $350.00 with swap meet parts and a rebuildable carburetor.

I have an AMC smog handbook which describes what is needed for AMC cars up through about 1974 I think. It was about that time that AMC TSM's Started documenting SMOG hardware and configurations better.
But the book only describes using AMC nomenclature for the function, not how it was done technically nor how variations of it were handled on various models.

And forums such as this largely no one is interested in it except to how bypass it which is handled extremely poorly quite frankly how how to make something run better assuming that who ever is 1) writing about it and 2) reading about it has any idea how to go about doing any of it.
I would not touch a nutter by pass on a bet.  For example.
And for cars needing to pass smog, that is not an answer. I would imagine there are a lot of late 70's and early 80's AMC cars driven to the junk yards due to failure to pass smog by people who really do not know how to tune one anyway.
By in large the over all criticism of the Carter BBD 2bbl carburetor has nothing to do with the carburetor at all.  Yes it is a bit complex to rebuild with a couple of critical adjustments in them. But the miles of vacuum lines largely incorrect with bits and pieces missing are way beyond the average back yard mechanics ability to ferret out what is going on with out the use of a TSM which many people do not have or will not purchase.
All of my AMC cars whether they have to pass smog or not, can and will pass smog.  Some of them require a very specific tune to do it, but it is doable.
My current project which I have derived a lot of enjoyment out of both building and owning is the installation of a Mercury Marine motor in a 1976 Hornet Sportabout.   It is the joint compilation of obtaining both the motor and the car through circumstances and wanting a street rod with a modern motor and drive train.
My goal when done is to have it SMOG LEGAL which can come from only knowing what the rules are for a 1976 vintage automobile as tested here in Arizona and knowing what is looked for and seeing to it that what is looked for is found.
If I don't hit that one right I will go for a smog exemption which I will get, but to me the challenge of making something smog legal is part of the automotive hobby and so far I have accomplished that.



70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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