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Formulation of AMC cast iron

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Boris Badanov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2017 at 7:55pm
I have the prints, the iron mix is on the print.

This is not to say there have been variations over the years.

That's one big "water letter outer-er".....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2017 at 10:33pm
We like to find any way possible to show that our (AMC) cars were better than the competition from the GM. Ford, and Chrysler, and some of that is because supporters of those other three car manufacturers tend to pick on AMC and think they were bad cars, because if they were good cars then the company would still be around. That post hoc, ergo propter hoc logic gives us a inferiority complex and we feel the need to overcompensate and defend our cars to a perhaps ridiculous level.

Who cares what the blocks were made of. They seem to experience about the same level of wear over a given mileage that other manufacturer's blocks do. There certainly isn't anything magical. If the blocks were harder or more ductile in any way, it seems trivial. It's not like AMC blocks experience half the wear compared to the competition or anything like that. We're just grabbing for straws. 
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 1:19am
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:

Who cares what the blocks were made of. They seem to experience about the same level of wear over a given mileage that other manufacturer's blocks do.

Except they don't. When I'm looking at the stupid crap done to these cars by old people that have no idea what they're doing and the easily avoided trauma that could have simply been avoided if these parts weren't messed with in the first place, the longevity meets or exceeds the overall lifespan of a competing engine from the same era. It's not magical, these engines were simply made with a lot more common sense and research.

I punch in the math between my stroked Jeep L6 and a Ford FE 390 and they're about the same until ~3000 where the FE takes a massive nosedive and the 285 just keeps pushing. I really want to put these on the dyno just to laugh at it. Engines made by others seem to last around 3 years in my care while the ones I build keep screaming. I'd like to experiment with the Ford 300 or maybe the BMW M30 just to see what I can make best. I'm guessing the Chevy 262 would be a more power capable candidate but the parts availability is worse than the AMC.

I just like the fact that some of our stock engines were shipped out with forged parts. There is NO complaint about bottom end in an AMC. Period.
1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31

1983 American Limited
Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARBED Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 1:38am
EVERY TWO YEARS LIKE CLOCKWORK.
59 American 2dr S/W. 70 390 AMX. 70 232 javelin. Kelvinator fridge ice cold beer storage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mixed up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 3:51am
if were taking about who made the better motors or how long they lasts all manufacture before the mid 80 did not have a v8 motor that lasted long at all most need a rebuild before 100.000 they either sludged up or burn oil I can remember the old 232 in the ramblers at 70-80k having a ridge in the cylinder were you could not get the piston out but a lot has happened with metal and oil technology to get this motors of today to last a lot longer so I think it comes down to that you will always get the die hard chevy'ford 'Pontiac /dodge amc people say they built the better motors
69 amx 290 auto
65 220 290 4spd
80 ford fairmont
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 4:44am
So ultimately it's overwhelmingly high potential that matters? Still sounds like the AMC wins out. I know we're going on about original factory build over anything else but when a tired factory AMC L6 chases 80% of the power of a 2x rebuilt big block around the 200K mark and is finally gone through for refresh, the results become competitive, wild and scary, considering everything available today.
1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31

1983 American Limited
Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 5:32am
Cylinder ridges disappeared from nearly all motors
in he mid 1970's.

This had NOTHING to do with block and liner materials.

Unleaded fuels (and low lead) were the reason.

The bromides added to the fuel to prevent
the TEL from settling formed a vapor abrasive when combusted.

That is why todays engines last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

BUT.....

The exhaust valves and seats took a hit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 7:01am
Technology moves forward. That's why old engines didn't last and new ones do. Rebuilt old engines properly cared for last longer than they would have when new, thanks to better oil for one thing. EFI, even TBI type, helps a lot too. Carbs are "good enough" devices that work best at only certain rpm/load ranges, and are just "close enough" everywhere else. That's why you can tune a carb to put out as much power as EFI -- but that carb is only going to be really efficient in a narrow rpm range. EFI tunes all the time for better efficiency wherever it's running, carbs have three narrow ranges (idle, mid range, and high range -- the stepped circuits). So less unburned fuel in the oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 7:18am
The black you see in oil is mostly soot that got past the rings and partially burnt lube oil. It’s like tiny sandpaper bits that first, break the motor in and wear parts into fitting well (rings and cylinders mostly) then if excessive, wear the motor out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 8:26am
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:

We like to find any way possible to show that our (AMC) cars were better than the competition from the GM. Ford, and Chrysler, and some of that is because supporters of those other three car manufacturers tend to pick on AMC and think they were bad cars, because if they were good cars then the company would still be around. That post hoc, ergo propter hoc logic gives us a inferiority complex and we feel the need to overcompensate and defend our cars to a perhaps ridiculous level. 

No need to look at the engine block materials to figure out what AMC did better,
there's hundreds of examples of AMC pioneering things that other manufacturers later came around to the "AMC way",
without ever acknowledging who had the idea first. 
(Unit body constriction, dual master cylinders, sear belts, reclining seats, etc etc)

Victors write the history books, and AMC lost the economic battle.

AMC's Jeep XJ, Jeep ZJ, and the designs for full size trucks went on to save Chrysler after the mini-van craze died off.

Today the whole Fiat multi-make corporation is on the chopping block,
and it's acknowledged by all that "Jeep" is the crown jewel of the company,
the most valuable and profitable segment of all.

Tho it does make me wonder of there's a "curse of Jeep",
since every company that has owned it has eventually been bought, and then dismantled so another company could get it.

71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords
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