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'66 199, continuing fuel issues |
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Pathwayrev
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/03/2012 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Posted: Nov/19/2012 at 2:40pm |
OK, it's not a vapor lock as I theorized. I took the suggestions in my last post and ran a rubber fuel line over the top of the valve cover and put the filter in that line, near the high point as it turns out. It still does it - will not stay running if it's been sitting for 20-45 minutes or so. After starting, dying, starting dying, etc. it will eventually catch and run fine, but that 5 minutes or so of frustration is draining my love for this car.
Today I made work of thoroughly investigating it when it happened. That (clear plastic) fuel filter was empty. Once I got it to start and stay running it had very little fuel in it - just barely enough to rise to the level of the outflow side. (It's on a slight slant and I'd say it was 1/8 full +/-) Question 1: how much fuel should be in that filter when the car is running? Question 2: why would the fuel pump work fine except in that window when the car has been sitting briefly - not enough to cool down. She runs fine otherwise. Question 3: if I convert to an electric pump (if that's a solution) can I leave the existing pump in place so I get the vacuum necessary for the wipers? Other counsel here? I'm frustrated!
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ICEMAN6166
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/12/2012 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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fuel pump is how old ?
fuel lines from tank to pump are hole free and connections tight? accelerator pump in carb is functioning properly? both my ambassador and my 66 ford truck clear inline fuel filters stay full when running. |
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1964 Ambassador 990
1966 F250 4x4 |
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nali
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Oct/30/2008 Location: Montreal , Can. Status: Offline Points: 984 |
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I remember reading somewhere (maybe on The Hamb ) that having air with fuel in the filter is common on this king of setup, and doesn't cause any problem.
Are you sure it s a fuel relative problem ? Engine not running when hot reminds me of a leaking ignition capacitor . Fixing the pump should not be so hard. Easier than adapting an electric. But running the fuel pump without fuel should not cause any problem. Maybe using a filter on the inlet side to avoid dust or anything that may damage it inside. |
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No more car :)
Maybe a 1965 Ambassador Coupé someday .. If I can find a cheap one. |
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Pathwayrev
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/03/2012 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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It's clearly a fuel problem. I can see that no fuel is entering the inlet side of the filter. None. So as soon as what's in the carb's float bowl is gone the car dies.
"Then and Now" is the only vendor I'm seeing that supplies kits and will rebuild these things. I'm not w/o some skills (rebuilt the car) but the fuel pump looks trickier and requires some special tools. Sending it to Then and Now involves time and is not cheap. An electric pump is cheaper and should be a simple attachment to the fender well. All's fine IF the mechanical pump can be left in place to supply vacuum for the wipers.
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Bart R. Orlans
AMC Nut Joined: Mar/28/2010 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Have you looked at the filter on the end of the fuel sending unit/pickup in the gas tank? If it's never been touched since the factory, it could be gummed up causing fuel flow issues.
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Bart R. Orlans
They call me daddy at home |
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nali
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Oct/30/2008 Location: Montreal , Can. Status: Offline Points: 984 |
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I suppose the main failure reason of a fuel pump is the membrane. I don t know the 199 pump. Mine is a 232. but they are all quite the same. The valves can t really go wrong, there s nothing inside. They can maybe get stuck by varnish . Removing them from the pump body is a pain and can't be done without destroying them. Here s how I fixed my leaking pump. The most difficult part to find is a piece of membrane fuel resistant. The only "special tool" used was a drop of Loctite :) |
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No more car :)
Maybe a 1965 Ambassador Coupé someday .. If I can find a cheap one. |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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So it sounds like fuel is draining back from the pump and filter into the tank. So it takes a few seconds to suck fuel back up into the line. The pump usually has a one-way valve inside to prevent draining the line, that must be stuck open or otherwise faulty. If you can find a brass one-way valve about the right size (the line from the tank is 5/16", but you can adapt a bit larger valve -- 3/8" or even 1/2"). I'd put it between the pump and inlet line and try that. Since it runs after a bit of cranking the pump is obviously working.
You can leave the pump in place and just loop a hose between the fuel inlet and outlet to keep trash out and use an electric fuel pump. Electric pumps should be mounted close to the tank and preferably below the tank level, but the later may be impossible. Mount it as low as practical though. Electric fuel pumps are pushers and don't do well pulling fuel up from the tank. Mounting close to the tank with only a short "pull" run is sufficient. You could remove the pump and install a block-off. The vac wipers should work fine with one of the large 1/2 gallon "juice can" vac storage tanks from a 90s Ford truck. My brother's 1998 F-250 has a pair of them under the hood, it's a straight drive base model. If this is a daily driver often driven in the rain you may need two tanks or keep the booster pump, but one is usually sufficient for 20-30 seconds of low vacuum, such as passing or pulling a hill. The wipers may slow down but won't stop with a tank. For just getting caught in the occasional shower that should be acceptable. |
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Frank Swygert
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Pathwayrev
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/03/2012 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Hey, farna, thanks for chiming in. I was hoping to hear from you.
As it turns out, I'm mid-way in the process of installing an electric pump. The best spot I could find given their routing of the fuel line is under the rear seat. Just have to wait until the wife is home tomorrow (working Thanksgiving Day) to hold the nut inside while I work the bolt from underneath. I wondered about the fuel pump but will run a loop as you suggest. I rarely drive it in the rain, mostly because it rarely rains here in the desert. I have good vacuum but need to address some kind of problem with the wiper unit. Another day. I'm back to thinking I've been getting a vapor lock either inside the pump or very close to it. That's the only reason (?) I'd get no fuel out of the pump during that hour after I shut it off - and the heat builds. But opening the hood (heat escapes) and waiting a few minutes solves the problem. Regardless, the electric pump should eliminate the problem regardless of cause.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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As far as where to get electric power, what I did was run a wire directly from the switch to a relay. The relay cuts battery power on/off to a six fuse panel. You can find the panel at any auto parts store, takes the modern blade type fuses. Run a wire from the battery to the main terminal of the relay then from the other side to the fuse panel. Hook the relay activation wire to the run position of the switch (or run your brake light wire to it -- connect power for the brake lights to one of the fuses), the other side to ground. Now you have six switched power connections. Need to add something? Just connect a female spade end to a wire and plug in a fuse. The relay puts little load on the wire from the switch, and you can mount the panel anywhere. I mounted mine on the passenger side firewall, just under the dash.
Edited by farna - Nov/24/2012 at 11:33am |
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Frank Swygert
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