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Gen II with a 4 sp auto?

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FuzzFace2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/21/2014 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by budryzer budryzer wrote:

Great:)
Thanks for all the responses.

That gives me a lot to think about. I didn't consider the novak adapter route. It opens up a lot more possibilities I need to consider. I have a 727 with the amc bell, so I initially thought 518. But I'll have to look into the GM products.
Gear Venders does make an OD unit that bolts to the 727 trany.
You can look into the GV unit and to buy an adapter for the OD trany you want to use if there is an adapter. Then you have to buy and maybe rebuild a trany to use so what are you upo to $$ wise?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 2:45pm
Phoenix Transmissions has a 700R4 for $1755 and change:

At this point you're around a grand to the good:

Now add your Novak adapter kit:

In round numbers, you're still $500 to the good by adapting a 700R4 to your engine, vs. installing a Gear Vendors overdrive.  Which is probably why the GV OD isn't recommended by as many people...after all, to those of us with "that AMC mentality," 500 bucks saved is a manifold and carburetor bought.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 3:32pm
So far, I have converted four performance cars to transmissions with overdrive. My favorite one is the Bowtie Overdrives 2004R Level II with a 2200 stall convertor. Handles 450hp/450 ft lbs. In a AMX the ideal axle ratio would be between 3.50 and 3.73. The gear ratios in the 2004R are spaced ideally for performance cars. For comparison sake look at the numbers:

2004R   1st gear 2.72   2nd gear 1.57   3rd gear 1.00   OD .67
7004R            3.06            1.62            1.00      .70
518              2.45            1.45            1.00      .69   
TH400            2.48            1.48            1.00

The 7004R seems more suitable for a truck or heavy vehicle because of the disappointing lag between 1st and 2nd gear.

The 2004R is 27-3/4" overall length.
The 7004R is 30-3/4" overall length.
The 518   is 38-1/4" overall length
The TH400 is 28-1/4" overall length. (Short tailshaft)

The 2004R is most dimensionally compatible with the floor/trans tunnel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 3:43pm
I personally would not use a final drive ratio any steeper than a 3.15:1 and would take a serious look at obtaining a 2.87:1 if I could find one.
Right now I am planing to use a 2.73:1 which is a bit taller than I like but it is in the car and in good shape.
I will worry about replacing it if or when it breaks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budryzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 4:16pm
Hmmnn   Thanks for all the info. I will now look into the 2004r as well.
I didn't even consider it before but I like the numbers. The 518 is really long comparatively...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 9:41pm
I've talked about in other posts, but I have a 200R4 on a 401 in an American using an Advance Adapters kit with a lockup TC and a 3:54 rear. It's a great highway cruiser. THe biggest issue is a dipstick tube, moving the crossmember back because the trans mount is about 6" to the rear and getting the carb linkage and TV cable right. It's critical and controls the transmission throttle pressure. My original SC based exhaust wouldn't clear the trans sides
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by Rogue401 Rogue401 wrote:

I've talked about in other posts, but I have a 200R4 on a 401 in an American using an Advance Adapters kit with a lockup TC and a 3:54 rear. It's a great highway cruiser. THe biggest issue is a dipstick tube, moving the crossmember back because the trans mount is about 6" to the rear and getting the carb linkage and TV cable right. It's critical and controls the transmission throttle pressure. My original SC based exhaust wouldn't clear the trans sides


I found getting the carb linkage and TV Cable the easiest part of the conversion. Takes a few minutes if you have done it before. I used Bow Tie Overdrives EZ TV Cable Kit for a Holley 600 cfm. The 3:54 rear gears are an excellent choice. Yes the trans mount is a bit rearward but easy to fix with a drill or welder. I did have to route my exhaust differently by notching the cross member. I also added a bung to the oil pan to monitor the 2004R fluid temperature. All a labor of love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogue401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2014 at 11:49pm
Yes, The Bow Tie Overdrives looks like a great kit and the way I would go now. I did mine about 1998 before anything was available. I had the Quadrajet off the donor car and copied the leverage and linkage as best I could. I recently used a Jegs correction kit for an Edelbrock and that worked OK. I now have Demon carbs and they are supposed to have the correct pivot built in. We'll see...

I would also try to start with a 200R4 from a Monte SS or Turbo Buick Regal. They have the best parts to start with. A better front pump, valve body and governor I think. I couldn't find one at the time and used a V8 Olds station wagon and upgraded it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/23/2014 at 1:59am
I have 4.10s in the '68 Travelall to go with the 290/AW4 I was planning to run before I decided to go TH400 instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/23/2014 at 9:00am
With OD a 2.87 or 3.15 gear isn't enough. I tried using a 3.08. If I had planned on cruising at 80-85 a lot it might have been okay, but the engine wasn't turning enough to produce good power even at 70. It had adequate power for first gear, but when I switched to a 3.55 gear it had much more "spunk" in 1-3 and got 2 mpg better at 70-75 (which is my top cruising speed... except for rare occasion). Remember, a 0.70 OD gear cuts a 3.15 axle to the equivalent of a 2.20 axle (multiply OD gear ratio by axle... I realize you know that John, but others may not). With a higher stall converter you can make that work, but the engine has to turn higher to go up hills and accelerate, which means it burns a bit more gas. But if you already have a higher stall converter (2500 or so) then the high gear might be an economical choice. My brother built his 52 Ford with 2.73 axle, 3000 rpm stall, and a standard Ford C-6 trans (351C engine). It works with that combo -- good performance and decent mileage. With a standard stall converter mileage sucked! He was going to go to a lower gear but a friend who builds converters told him he could fix it for him for about the same cost as a set of gears (not including installing price!) and less trouble (we can pull a trans and swap converters, would have to take the axle to someone to set the gears up right).

Most OD applications with stock converters (1500 or so stall) use a 3.5x gear or lower. Depends on all the usual things -- engine size/power, vehicle weight, tire size, etc.
Frank Swygert
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