![]() |
|
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
Fuel Mileage? |
Post Reply
|
Page <1 34567 10> |
| Author | |
Shaggimo
AMC Apprentice
Joined: Mar/01/2012 Location: CNY Status: Offline Points: 52 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 11:01pm |
|
Well kinda, even though research has told me the carb I used was a 750, looking down the venturies, says otherwise, it has 800 written all over it. It looks identical to the qjet I use on my V8, which is off a caddy 500. Also, I happen to have a confirmed 750 for comparison, big difference, so I'm sure I have an 800 on my hands. As far as th inline taking all the cfm, not exactly, set up right the q jet will only flow as much as the engine demands, meaning yes the carb can flow upto 800cfm, but it will not actually do it unless circumstances are there. Say I took the carb off my V8 and plopped it on the I6, making no changes to the secondary end, The inline would not have the demand to open the secondaries like the V8 would (speaking of the top flaps which control how much fuel is dumped and when). My 8 will demand secondary asisstance almost right off the line, while the I6 doesn't ask for it until about 3000rpm. The same carb which flowed say 600 on the 8, may only flow 400 on the 6 (those are random numbers). That's the beauty of the vacuum/mechanical secondaries, unlike a holley or edelbrock, it controls fuel and air on a as needed basis. My favorite thing, is the set and forget tuning, once you have it right, you can just leave it alone, there's no need to mess with it on a weekly basis, I hated my AFB for that, I could never get that thing right for more than a couple days at a time.
|
|
![]() |
|
Thikstik
AMC Addicted
Joined: Mar/20/2008 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1078 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/03/2012 at 1:38am |
|
So if your running an 800 it'd even be a tiny bit crisper with a 750. Re ultimate cfm usage, i hear ya. I wonder how much your 6 is pulling open the air flaps.
Re adapting a qjet to clif intake, i pulled my carb and adaptor to mock things up as i found a Mr Gasket qjet to holley adaptor laying around. I used a qjet gasket to mock a qjet base and it wasnt pretty...the air flow from the qjet would have to sit oblong over the 4 holes and it looks to be a strong flow killer. Actually it would create some terrible turbulence. But, i think the cliff adaptor could be traced out and opened up to meet the bigger qjet pattern and work. I should upload a pic. The stack up of 2 spacers may be a foul ball also...dont know. It actually could help tork. Shaggimo, have you seen how bizarre the air flow has to be going from the qjet into the 4 bores? I know that the Offy has the 4 bores cast into many.
|
|
|
75 gremlin x, jeep 4L headed 258,Clifford cam, intake,header. 390 holley. I want a 282 VAM motor!
AC/PS/PDB. 72 AMX , 304 2bbl, 3speed, now disks...probably will sell, want an automatic /AC. |
|
![]() |
|
SportaboutX
AMC Addicted
Joined: Nov/10/2011 Location: The YAY area Status: Offline Points: 533 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/03/2012 at 2:56am |
|
14-16 all the way...sometimes less. Bone stock 1976 258/904. Gosh I hate the detuned emissions engines.
|
|
![]() |
|
tomj
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: los angeles Status: Offline Points: 591 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/03/2012 at 2:47pm |
|
anecdotally, i'm suspecting that the Torqueflite 904 transmission is very, very lossy -- eating HP and therefore mileage. There's no reason a stock/stock-ish 258 can't be nearly as frugal as a 232. 18mpg with a 232 is a no-brainer in any of the "big chassis" AMCs (classics, etc). Even with the older Flash-O-Matic trans.
The reason I say this is that not just in this thread, but every 70's/80's AMC I've heard about with 258/904 combo gets crap mileage. OK some of us may have a heavy foot, or a big carb, or worn motor, but a bunch here are not. The 904 is fairly bulletproof, but I suspect a gas hog. Few it seems have Hornets with 258 and manual trans in close to stock trim. Would be really nice to see what those are getting for mileage. |
|
![]() |
|
Thikstik
AMC Addicted
Joined: Mar/20/2008 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1078 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/03/2012 at 4:10pm |
|
904 isnt bad at all, thats part of why so much trouble was put into it to drag race elephant motor equipped Mopars in leiu of 727. The 904 is the basic Simpson gear set up that was the thing in the day, so it does sap hp especially on the 1-2 shift. But , alot less than others and in 1;1 it is fine. I think some may have worn convertors. I know that i like to always run an aftermarket convertor with brazed fins. Efficiency goes up and thats free power all the time as hi pressure fluid isnt sneaking past those fins. Tolerance is better putting the parts closer, upping efficiency also. I wasnt this way until I found two of my own convertors to be dogs over the last few years. They were just stock repacement tc's and as we all know, it seems workmanship is dead in world. Most dramatically this happened in my lt-1 caprice, trans had to come out for something else, and i put in another tc . It was like a new motor was put in and i was now glad the trans had to come out. I can only imagine how bad that cars hiway mpg wouldve been except it was a lock up tc, so it just didnt feel right...motor made the right sounds but just didnt move car like it used too.
|
|
|
75 gremlin x, jeep 4L headed 258,Clifford cam, intake,header. 390 holley. I want a 282 VAM motor!
AC/PS/PDB. 72 AMX , 304 2bbl, 3speed, now disks...probably will sell, want an automatic /AC. |
|
![]() |
|
billd
Moderator Group
Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 22774 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/03/2012 at 11:25pm |
|
I'd agree thickstick - from my experience because the 904 is so much lighter than other automatics internally, they consume less power, and take less to get them rolling.
It's why they get built a lot and used to replace the 727 because of the weight difference in the spinning parts. Getting parts to spin initially, the laws of physics kick in. The 904 takes less power to get it to spin up. The 727 will consume more power/gas to get it moving quickly. The Eagle used a 904 - and I know of one that gets 25-27 mpg when driven at 55 mph, low 20s when driven faster. It's a 258 with automatic. One has to look at the age of the vehicle, and ask, how well tuned is it REALLY? My bet if it was freshened up a bit, the transmission was properly rebuilt and the engine not tired, good compression, good vacuum, and the carb tweaked.......... What about tires? Tire inflation? Alignment?? How is the differential fluid? Thick like molasses, or fresh and clean? Is this driving with windows up or windows down? A worn torque converter, or adjustments out of whack in an auto will impact mileage. Also - are we talking highway miles? Town miles with a lot of stops and starts (a killer for an auto) or a combination of both? Even my cars when driven a lot in town drop mileage like crazy. My SX/4 drops to the 16.5 to 17.5 range when it's almost all in town with me tromping it a lot. |
|
![]() |
|
Thikstik
AMC Addicted
Joined: Mar/20/2008 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1078 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/03/2012 at 11:43pm |
|
X2 and alot of gas is used due to chokes being set on rich side, staying on too long. Idle mix cant be under-estimated . Mech advance curves being slow to locked due to age, or smogger profiles. Its no wonder fuel inj is considered so superior...it is consistant.
|
|
|
75 gremlin x, jeep 4L headed 258,Clifford cam, intake,header. 390 holley. I want a 282 VAM motor!
AC/PS/PDB. 72 AMX , 304 2bbl, 3speed, now disks...probably will sell, want an automatic /AC. |
|
![]() |
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7106 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 11:23am |
|
Just a nit to pick here... 2WD AMC sixes used 904, 304s used 998s, Eagles also used 998s. 998 and 094 are very similar, the 998 is basically a heavier duty 904. I forget the internal differences, I'm sure there are some on here who know.
|
|
|
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
|
![]() |
|
carnuck
AMC Addicted
Joined: Mar/31/2010 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 1432 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 1:13pm |
|
Rear band is wider and a few more clutches in the 998 or 999 vs 904. 999 also had lower first/second gear planetaries that 727 owners WISH they had. (available aftermarket for $$)
Edited by carnuck - Mar/04/2012 at 1:14pm |
|
![]() |
|
billd
Moderator Group
Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 22774 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 3:08pm |
oops - Frank is right. I guess I was thinking of Luke's car........ he's got a light MOPAR transmission in that Eagle. It's not the same as used in the 6cyl version. I had that car on the brain lately. The wagon is indeed a 998. It sort of threw me for a short time when I pulled it apart thinking we could use the standard Eagle parts.......... the selector shaft seal is the same, however. In any case, the 904/998 isn't a reason for poor fuel economy.......... since it's really a lighter version of the larger transmissions. It isn't, that is, unless it's got troubles. And now 30+ years later, I bet a lot of them do.
|
|
![]() |
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1 34567 10> |
|
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |