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fuel hose no longer boring

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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: fuel hose no longer boring
    Posted: Jan/08/2019 at 1:37pm
interesting and not in a good way. this isn't new, but i just got bit (again) by not paying attention/shopping by price... this is a reminder to myself too!


i just threw a new 25 ft roll of Dayco 5/16" fuel hose in the trash. in under two weeks it has got soft, and is slightly swelling. bought it from Summit. i logged back in to complain, but it states clearly in the product description "not for alcohol...". however in the questions area someone asked about that and multiple people said it is OK for alcohol... well people are wrong (me too). so i gotta eat my mistake.

this is common "good" hose. it's useless today, the 1970's is <------ that away. gasoline is too complicated today, there's weird stuff in it (no complaints, it burns amazingly clean, tried to read plugs lately?) but it eats even so-called good hose. there's no point in griping about change, today's gasoline is amazing, it just eats hose when it's the wrong type.

this is the wrong type:


the thing is, there's plenty of good choices Gates "Barricade" is available at O'Reillys, $2.69/foot. so-called "fuel injection" hose is *often* not always good.

the point is you gotta check. i dont know why anyone's even selling hose that can't be used with gasoline today. it seems unethical to me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ollie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/08/2019 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

 ...............the point is you gotta check. i dont know why anyone's even selling hose that can't be used with gasoline today. it seems unethical to me.


Couldn't agree with more.....a lot said for "read the fine print" 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/09/2019 at 4:58pm
And even the finer print as things have changed so quickly. There was a time, not log ago, that they had fuel hose ethanol rated but the finer print was only to 15%.
Needless to say if you get a fill up and the "mixing" pumps are not working correctly, you burn through fuel like mad and your fuel lines rot in one fill-up.
It was an expensive fill-up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/09/2019 at 10:15pm
yeah, it makes sense of course that the chemistry would get as much, or more, attention that the metal has. for 99% of the world driving what ($MANUFACTURER) installed and goes to the dealer for service, none of this is of any concern. it's only us foo's messing about that need worry.

do you mean specifically Dayco had the 15% limit? that's really odd, you'd think (...) it would be alcohol resistant, or not... but in my readings i ran into one of those car-pro-tech websites that talked specs and numbers on 'permeation', which means it's not 0 or 100, but an "acceptable" amount of permeation...

one seemingly reputable site said it assumed about 1.5 gallons/year of fuel loss through permeable hose. as crazy as that sounds at first, given how soft the NEW! Dayco hose was in my car after only two weeks. i'm sure it was porous and evaporating to the air. THAT never occurred to me...

so i wonder, what's the permeation rate for good hose? it sort of implies it's not zero...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/10/2019 at 12:04am
The standard sold by the foot fuel/vapor hose at auto parts stores is made by Gates and rated for gasoline, gasohol, and Diesel. "Fuel rated" is a misnomer. It's just reinforced Nitrile rubber hose. Most hoses are Nitrile, whether they are meant for fuel or not. I have found that gasoline softens it. That's not really a problem so long as you keep it wet with fuel. Allow it to dry out and it becomes harder than it was new. It starts to crack after 5-8 years.


I've started using what NAPA calls Barricade hose, also made by Gates. Some of it is carburetion rated and some is fuel injection rated. The only real difference is the pressure rating. Barricade hose has a special barrier layer that prevents fuel permeation of the rubber. It should last longer.

Silicone hose is always an option. Silicone hose doesn't say it is fuel rated, but I have proven that it is. My Hornet has it's original 42 year old silicone vacuum hoses and they are just as strong and pliable as they were new. I've had a 3/4" silicone heater hose as a gas thank filler vent hose on my Wagoneer for close to 10 years and it's just as soft and pliable as when it was new, even on the inside.It's a silicone heater hose! And it's outlasted the Nitrile "fuel/vapor rated" hoses!

I don't like removing my fuel tanks every 5-8 years to replace hoses, so I fork over $$$ for good hose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/10/2019 at 11:28pm
it's funny, that after my brief bout with this, and the subsequent (brief) research, when all was said and done, i got 24" of the stuf at Pep Boys -- overpriced at $4.49/foot, but it is as you say, the good stuff. it's not hard to puzzle out the reason they sell only the good stuff in those little kiosk things.

it was dumb of me to buy cheap hose. i don't generally do that. all my coolign system hose is silicone from PegasusAutoRacing.com, along with the nicer hose clamps. not cheap! but one look at it and you'll get why -- it's all sharp clean quality stuff. 

it never occurred to me that silicone cooling hose would be good for gasoline. Pegasus says to keep it away from oil, so i assumed it was bad for gas too. i bought real gasoline hose (a buck an inch) from fillernecksupply.com for the old Rambler filler. (just this month i installed a Tanks Inc steel baffled fuel cell -- OMFG is its good quality. it fills from the trunk right now. i'll build remote fill next.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Burnished Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2019 at 12:06am
I guess that I can be the hose expert for the forum.  Been selling automotive and industrial hose for 50 years now.

In a typical year, we sell well over 100,000 ft of SAE J30R7 Fuel Line Hose and have never had an issue like is being described here.  I also use it in all of my muscle cars.  Some now restored for over 15 years.

It is possible that you received a poorly compounded or improperly cured Dayco hose.  It's not the brand I sell but the hose is manufactured to SAE specification for compounds, wall thickness and burst pressure.  A defective production run is a  possibility

Fuel Injection Hose is for higher pressure applications.  The compound is most likely identical.  You're just paying a lot more money for something you don't need.

The Gates Barricade Fuel Line Hose is designed for sale in California.  It is the same hose as the SAE J30R7 but has a liner embedded in the wall to prevent hydrocarbon molecules from permeating in to the atmosphere.  Again, paying more for something you don't need.

SAE J30R7 Fuel Line Hose was designed to handle today's gasoline.  It replaced the old SAE J30R1 many years ago.

I suggest giving the SAE J30R7 another try.  Another brand will give you a different product for the same application.  That Dayco run you purchased from appears to be a defective production run.

Silicone is NOT recommended for use with gasoline or oil.  Silicone has very poor tensile strength.  Petroleum products (gasoline and oil) will further break down the tensile making the Silicone susceptible to disintegration. 

Purchase another brand of SAE J30R7.  We sell Continental brand - again with no issues.  Cut a small piece and place it in a jar of the gasoline you are using and see what happens after a few hours.  Check the tube swell and hardness against a new piece not placed in the jar.  The cover will swell more than the tube because the cover is compounded for more heat resistance than the tube.  


Edited by Burnished Brown - Jan/11/2019 at 12:09am
Terry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2019 at 7:38am
The hose that failed on me was SAE 30R6.
Correct me if wrong, but don't modern vehicles use mostly nylon tube?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote First_Gear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2019 at 7:41pm
I have wondered about this with the piece of hose that runs between the fuel filler neck and the tank. I am not sure what it is made out of or if it will handle the ethanol. It is a specially molded hose for the 65-66 big cars. I can't remember where I got it.. Galvins maybe. I've yet to install it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Burnished Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2019 at 8:19pm
SAE 30R6 is a lesser specification grade version of the 30R7.  The big difference is the quality of the cover.  The 30R6 cover is not as temperature and oil resistant when compared to the 30R7.  The tube should be just fine.

SAE 30R6 will perform well on gasoline engine equipment installations.  It may not perform well in automotive under- hood applications.  If you are experiencing failure, it is most likely the cover.  

Use SAE 30R7 for automotive under hood applications.

All of the old SAE J30R1 and 30R2 fuel line hoses must be removed from our now 40-50 year old vehicles.
Those hoses will fail - guaranteed with today's gasoline.  Don't forget the short piece that goes between the gas tank and the steel front-to-rear gas line.


Edited by Burnished Brown - Jan/12/2019 at 8:24pm
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