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front timing chain cover

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71 Javelin AMX O.O. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71 Javelin AMX O.O. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: front timing chain cover
    Posted: Aug/30/2017 at 3:36pm
I was wondering if it's possible to remove the front timing chain cover with the motor still in the car with the oil pan still bolted to the bottom of the block. Of course everything in front of the cover will need to be taken off, probably the radiator, too?
I think I need to replace the gasket between the block and the cover.
Thanks

Steve
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2017 at 4:04pm
Yep done It many a time. When you install, be sure to trim the two bottom gasket segments to align with the pan holes and but up against the trimmed off old gasket pieces. A knife will be needed to clean it up along with old cover casket material on the face of the engine. Use plenty of gasket compound to fill the joint of the gasket to pan, and install the two pan bolts fit finger tight until the cover aligns with the downs and pops into place. Then install a few cover bolts to hold in place and properly seal the cover. Finish up with the bottom pan bolts and install accessories.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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71 Javelin AMX O.O. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71 Javelin AMX O.O. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2017 at 4:50pm
Do you have any tips for installing the gasket for the cover as it''s not very wide in places.
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2017 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by 71 Javelin AMX O.O. 71 Javelin AMX O.O. wrote:

Do you have any tips for installing the gasket for the cover as it''s not very wide in places.


Use RTV around the full perimeter, taking care of the oil and water ports of the cover, and lay thr gasket in place making sure when gasket is flat against the cover the ports are clear and not much has oozed out. I wait about 5 to 10 minutes to make sure it tacks in place. Mainly once the cover is started for alignment the gasket could shift and you may end up with offset gasket holes. To help with keeping the gasket set while installing the cover, I use a few smaller bottom portion bolts to keep the gasket from shifting when it settles past the pins and starts to seat. You can wrap a wee bit of paper around the shank near the head end of the bolts to keep them from sliding out as the cover will be tilted once you start with setting it in place. Be sure to RTV the cork gasket segments once your ready to install the cover. I usually wait for the gasket segments to set a wee bit, as once you start bolting the pan to the cover, things get sloppy if hurried.

You may do a dry run with how you attack the cover before starting the gasket install so you can see how things meet up and how the process of fitment can be unexpectedly difficult if going in a hurry. RTV is slow at drying so it's not going to be a race to install before it skins up and does not stick.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmaher94087 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2017 at 6:48pm
"I think I need to replace the gasket between the block and the cover." OK, I'll bite. What makes you think you need to replace the timing cover gasket? Curious mind wants to know...
Mike
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71 Javelin AMX O.O. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71 Javelin AMX O.O. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 9:21am
Glad you asked. Right above the oil pan lip at the right front corner just below the oil pressure sending unit I get a small drip of coolant. I've checked every seam that I can see and can't figure out how coolant can be leaking out at that location. I thought the first thing would be to remove as much of the front accessories and see if something shows up. Also I was thinking of putting a dye in the coolant and seeing if I can tract it down. The water pump to the timing chain cover looks tight. My engine is super clean, so it can be hard to see where this is coming from. It's not a lot of coolant, but annoying. IO don't want to put a coolant stop leak in the system either. Any suggestions?

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 9:41am
My 73 Javelin had a hole develop at one of the water passages behind the water pump.

Could be that the gasket failed from a loose long bolt. Or erosion at the cover's mating surface. IIRC, the cover has a wee trough cut around the sealing area of the water ports coming from the water pump. It is possible that channel may allow leaking if compromised. Check your oil's condition. Just in case as it could be leaking internally into the oil pan, from the front of the engine drain back.

As another thought came up... The head has a freeze plug up front. Check if it is not leaking down and onto the timing cover. It think it aligns very close. Just a thought.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmaher94087 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 10:56am
304-dude wrote: "IIRC, the cover has a wee trough cut around the sealing area of the water ports coming from the water pump. It is possible that channel may allow leaking if compromised." I have experienced leaking at this seam also. The aluminum timing chain cover to block sealing area is thin in this area and corrosion can cause the seal to leak. Before tearing things apart, you may wish to get the engine up to operating temp and shut it down. Take a piece of TP or paper towel and, starting at the top, run it slowly down the seam of the T-C cover. Where the TP gets wet is likely very close to where the coolant is leaking. While not a warm thought; you may need a new T-C cover. Inspect your old one carefully as a leak around the water passage is usually not going to seal with only a new gasket. A straight edge across the housing may help.
Mike
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71 Javelin AMX O.O. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71 Javelin AMX O.O. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 2:42pm
Everyone:
The gasket between the timing chain cover and block does look wet, but not so much that you can see it run. I have been tightening the bolts that hold the cover on to the block as they work loose. Kind of impossible to get a wrench on some of them with the pullys on. That was my reason to change the gasket. No freeze plug leaks. The channel that you mentioned was sealed up as it did go through the casting. I didn't know why it was there and thought to plug a possible leak when it was first installed. Maybe it's come loose? The timing chain cover was inspected by Bulltear as he thought any old cover should be checked for warpage. It passed with no warpage. It's been 5 years the motor has been running, so my thought is it still needs a new gasket. Oil looks fine with no sign of coolant.
Thanks for the input.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2017 at 6:14pm
Steve, 

Just an FYI, if you own a black light or can borrow one, Anti Freeze will glow under black light, I have trouble shot a lot of "mystery" leaks on all brands that way with success.  One more piece of advise, you made a good point about how do you get the front cover gasket on the dowels and the " short pan rail" gasket all in place at one time.  That is a very legitimate problem.....the real problem is the pan rail gasket (still installed on block) is still "compressed" by the pan being installed, the piece they give you in the front timing cover set is full uncompressed thickness.....the two don't play well together.  After way to many failed attempts over the years, I found that installing the timing cover gasket on the block with Permatex Right Stuff in Caulking Gun.  Gently push gasket in place over the dowels and align all the holes then coat the surface that will be against the timing cover.  DO NOT INSTALL the cork extensions of the pan rail, but rather place a thick layer of the Right Stuff on the pan and on the bottom of the timing cover.....you are trying to put enough to fill the void left by the missing cork.  Tighten all the cover bolts up, put the oil pan bolts int he hole and very lightly snug them....after Right Stuff is dry (I like to wait 24 hours to be safe), then tighten down the pan bolts and put her back together.  I have NEVER had one leak at the pan to cover interface after this method......but try to install those cork pieces will make you say some choice words!
Ross K. Peterson
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