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Front spring selection |
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67 Marlin
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/21/2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 876 |
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Posted: Oct/08/2015 at 2:42am |
Front end of my 67 Marlin with the weird trunnion suspension sits higher than my liking. Non-A/C car. Are the six cylinder motor springs too feeble to help lower it an inch or so without being squashed? My experience with aftermarket springs on other makes is they always have sat the car too high compared to stock; same deal with AMC aftermarket stuff? Don't want to buy non-A/C 343 springs and end up with a flying saucer! Any tips from folks with experience with similar cars?
FYI the front springs are original and maybe the shocks. Lots of other stuff replaced by PO, including rear shocks and springs. Edited by 67 Marlin - Oct/08/2015 at 8:31am |
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FuzzFace2
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10343 |
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Are the springs in the car now new? Could the rear springs be sagging?
I would say if new and the car has not been driven (much) to drive it and let it settle in. BTW I installed a set of 6 cly springs in my drag car with v8 and it did sit high. thing was I could not drive the car on the road, drag only, but towing on the trailer did settle it. Dave ---- |
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TSM = Technical Service Manual
75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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67 Marlin
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/21/2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 876 |
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The front springs are original. New springs and shocks on the back (edited my post to reflect that, kind of useful info!) Also, here is how it currently sits.. Front passenger side is 3/4 inch higher than driver side, when measured at the wheel arch (vertical through the wheel center cap). Rear driver side is 1/2 inch lower than the passenger side. My first thought was the driver side rear spring wasn't seated right, but the suspension guys said it's good. They also noticed the PO spent a lot of $$ replacing stuff under the car. In regard to the passenger side front being higher, in an A/C car, would the spring push the passenger side higher if the A/C system was removed or the front end equally higher? Don't think it had A/C, but if so, maybe the reason for being so popped up, especially so on the passenger side. Edited by 67 Marlin - Oct/08/2015 at 8:47am |
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maximus7001
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/27/2011 Location: Winnipeg,Canada Status: Offline Points: 1080 |
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Rear springs tend to become uneven easier than fronts. Every AMC I have driven has had uneven and/or sagged rear springs. Uneven rear springs tend to make the whole car uneven unless a vehicle has torsion bar front suspension.
On my Safari I just adjusted the torsion bars to even it out. When I get around to replacing the AMC rear springs I will get them made by a local old time chassis shop that makes them from scratch daily with quality metal. I did this with a 75 nova after store bought replacements went flat after 6 nonths. Both cars need a new set. I think many mass produced modern ones are made from low quality metal. Why else would they go flat in 6 months when the originals took over 20 years to do so? Edited by maximus7001 - Oct/08/2015 at 9:42am |
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1968 Javelin SST
1997 GMC Safari AWD 2001 Daewoo Nubira SX (Winnipeg only model) 1997 Honda Accord EX (Canadian Model) Winnipeg, home of the Jets. |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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AMC cars came out of the factory nose high for some reason or another, at least Javelins and AMX's did in the late 60's and pretty much everything in the 70's.
I solve that by lowering the front. I don't need to raise the center of the gravity. I generally use a cut off tool and remove a portion of the top coil on the 70+ or ball joint suspensions using a rule of thumb that says one coil = 3 inches. Do not use a torch, no heat!!! Edited by uncljohn - Oct/08/2015 at 10:54am |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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sweatlock
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/28/2014 Location: Largo, FL Status: Offline Points: 3285 |
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It's interesting to note that the only modern vehicles that use leaf springs are pickup trucks - that would tend to give one the impression that they are heavy-duty and work well with large, heavy loads, such as in a pickup truck bed. However, I have seen far more issues with leaf springs sagging, even on light 70's & 80's midsize & compact passenger cars, than I have coil springs.
On many cars with original springs (coils in front, leaf springs in the rear), the front springs will usually sit higher than the rear. When you get underneath the car and take a look at the leaf springs, you'll see that the springs are not just sagging, they're reverse-bent, sometimes in an 'S' shape. I realize that they're subjected to more driveline stress and weight transfer during 'spirited' acceleration than coil springs are, but I've simply come to the conclusion that leaf springs in general suck and that coil springs are a far superior design. As far as the quality of the metal used to make modern leaf springs, I don't know if it's a case of using poor quality steel or inadequate/improper heat tempering/hardening, or a combination of both. |
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67 Marlin
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/21/2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 876 |
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My car has coil springs front and back, with the front springs above the rest of the mix. That said, these springs seem way easier to remove and install than those placed between upper and lower control arms. Based on the helpful responses thusfar, doesn't look like it'll be very straightforward to get it a little lower than stock without buying a pair of springs, rolling around for a while, cutting to suit if still too high, and repeating ad nauseum until happy.
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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Leaf springs are simple. Inexpensive to manufacture and serve to mount a solid rear drive axle taking into account load carrying capability and absorbing torque from acceleration and deceleration cost effectively. When you make the comment that they were commonly used, you also have to take into account that they all had a common application.
What is not seen is that the Corvette used a transverse leaf spring to control the independent rear axle suspension. A single leaf and a complex application but still a leaf. Coil springs have had their use alos in multiple applications, some far more complex than others. A "Strut" is an application of a coil spring and a shock absorber all used to replace an upper control arm in front wheel drive applications. The major benefit was to gain more room under the hood for the drive train components. It actually was a less successful suspension component than say a dual A frame suspension, but it was an inexpensive solution for mass production. Each spring type and it's method of application is driven by the final need balanced off against the cost of manufacturing. A "coil over" suspension which is popular with aftermarket suspension modifications has it's own problems too. It's biggest advantage is not it's efficiency but it's adaptability to multiple applications. I don't see a real problem with a "leaf" spring. I have had way to many cars that used them in one form or another over the years, successfully. I have had torsion bars sag along with coils and leafs. but on AMC, they came out of the factory and into the show room , nose high. That is not sag, it is how they were made. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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toolmanxiii
AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/16/2010 Location: Moncton Canada Status: Offline Points: 1384 |
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I used a set off 78 258 concord on my 73 360 non air Jav ... it actually sat nicely after driving for a while and it had time to settle . measured front to rear at the rockers . 3 1/2 front 3 5/8 at the rear on the drivers side .3 1/2 front 3 1/2 rear passengers side. but right rear always carries more load on acceleration .
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71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)
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FuzzFace2
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10343 |
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IIRC the plates lower it about 1-5/8". Dave ---- |
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TSM = Technical Service Manual
75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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