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Front end alignment |
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74gremx 
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Joined: Jan/18/2009 Location: Adelaide, Aust Status: Offline Points: 949 |
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 Topic: Front end alignmentPosted: Aug/27/2016 at 3:11am |
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Is there an easy method of aligning the front end to get it "near enough" to drive ?
After rebuilding a front end completely, do you just get the wheels 'sort of' vertical and 'sort of' pointing straight ahead and get it a shop ? Or can you get it close enough by measurements somehow ? |
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1970 Javelin 360/727
1974 Levis Gremlin X 304/904 1964 American Convertible 1974 Matador wagon (parts) 2016 Holden Cruze Equipe 2014 Holden Colorado "Don't mistake activity for achievement". |
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shopandsurf
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Joined: Sep/06/2013 Location: Orlando, FL Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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Posted: Aug/27/2016 at 4:53am |
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I first took mine to a shop and they were way off on the specs. One spring had a very large bow and caster was way off. I ended up doing it all myself at home with a digital angle gauge, a long aluminum angle and a short piece of wood to sit on the rim surface.
Camber - Zero the angle on the floor and then use my piece of wood to measure the wheel. Caster - Measured front and rear side of trunion and averaged them to get the caster angle. Toe in - Used piece of wood and long aluminium angle to project a line down to the rear wheels. Then measured distance between lines near the front and rear wheels and use trig to get the angle. While doing this I realized that I could get really close just by eyeballing the stuff from a distance. So really you could just do that to get you to the shop.
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1969 AMX 390 AT Go Pac Bittersweet |
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tyrodtom
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Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6213 |
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Posted: Aug/27/2016 at 10:42am |
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I've been aligning my circle track cars for about 20 years now, don't make the mistake of thinking you can see your alignment by standing back in the distance and seeing it with your eye. If it's far enough off that you can see it that way, it's way off. You alignment can have quite a bit of variance before you can detect it by eye.
It may be good enough to align it so you can drive it to a alignment shop, but that's all. Since my car's rear end is just as adjustable as the front , but like a lot of cars, the rear end is not the exact same width as the front. If you assume the rear is the same as the front and use a long stick off the rear to establish straight your alignment will be off. I use a taught string tied to heavy jackstands to establish a straight line, perfectly parallel with itself and the centerline of the car
. Then set the toe from that. You may find your rear end, even solid rear axles, isn't perfectly aligned with the centerline of your car. I've been doing this for decades for my race cars, and daily drivers. But today is a race day, and I've gotta run. I'll post more on this tomorrow.
Edited by tyrodtom - Aug/27/2016 at 10:45am |
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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tomj
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Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Posted: Aug/29/2016 at 8:32pm |
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what tyrodom sez.
toe is the thing to get close in order to drive it to an alignment shop. caster and camber errors won't affect wear like bad toe in (or out!) will. i've kludged-up toe setting using tire sipes as the reference -- UGH! -- and when i got to the shop it was something like 1/4" still, so that's a lousy method. i thought i could do 1/8" error but i was wrong. if i only had to drive a mile or two, maybe i'd do that again. i bought a Longacre caster/camber tool but not yet used it; nor have i made (or bought) toe alignment plates, but i plan to. though without turntables it's still a PITA. for such a simple-seeming measurement it's a PITA to pull off right without the tools. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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Ollie
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Joined: Sep/17/2012 Location: Brandon, MS Status: Offline Points: 2803 |
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Posted: Aug/29/2016 at 8:58pm |
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I would think that if all the pieces were assembled correctly you can eye ball the wheel for camber and castor. Adjust according. Max castor is a plus.
Toe is eye ball to. Adjust accordingly. If you can't drive it at least 45 mph you need a new eye ball or more beer. Adjust it yourself for the way you want the vehicle to handle, your the driver. I am my own front end man Having AMC Fun, Ollie |
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tyrodtom
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Posted: Aug/29/2016 at 10:00pm |
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You can eyeball it well enough to get it to a alignment shop, but you can't eyeball it well enough to drive daily without some kind of measuring tools. you're fooling yourself if you think your eyes can tell the difference between 1/8 toe out and 1/8 toe in, and that's a 1/4th inch difference, which will show distinctive wear patterns on the tire. But adjusting your suspension by tire wear indications can run you out of tires quick. You need to get it close to right the first time, and fine tune from there. I use toe plates, with 2 pieces of hard plastic under each tire ( for frictionless plates). I have a camber gauge, and lots of string, I use them all. Of course I use my eyeballs to read those gauges, but that's as far as I trust the old MK I eyeball.
Then I use a laser sight at the track for quick checks on front to rear alignment, instead of the string I use at the garage .
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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dogbone
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Joined: Mar/13/2008 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 702 |
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Posted: Aug/29/2016 at 10:51pm |
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is there any adjustment for the rear on a torque tube car? My wagon seems to have one tire farther back in the wheel well on one side. Maybe 1.5 inches. I haven't had it aligned since I rebuilt the front end. i've put only a few miles on it trying to get the engine broken in. It seems to track really well as is. I do plan to get it aligned.
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64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Posted: Aug/30/2016 at 6:16am |
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There is no adjustment for the torque tube rear. The only thing that holds the axle perpendicular to the tube is the strut rods. Check to see if one is broke loose. Since it track well I doubt it, but it may have just been aligned to track as is. My guess is that all is as it should be. Maybe the car was in a wreck and the quarter not installed properly, or a repair not done right? I don't think the torque tube would take that much bend, but you can look at it and see if the tube itself is bent, probably in front of the point where the strut rods meet the tube.
You could also have a broken or loose thrust rod on the transmission crossmember, and/or a broken trans crossmember mount. The 63-66 big cars have rubber mounts on the ends of the crossmember, mounting it to the car body. Replacements are available from Galvin's and other vendors. If you do have a rear axle alignment problem it is more likely to be a crossmember (or even engine mount) issue than a torque tube/axle issue. |
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Frank Swygert
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tyrodtom
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Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6213 |
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Posted: Aug/30/2016 at 8:21am |
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I don't think no klutst could install a quarter 1.5 inches off, either you'd have a massive gap at the door, one you really could throw a cat through, or the door would be overlapping the doorjamb so much it couldn't close. But the rear could be back one side .75, and forward .75 on the other, for a total difference of 1.5. Get someone to follow you down a straight road, they'll be able to see if the car is going slightly sideways. You see this problem often on old trucks with leaf springs, if one spring sags. A car can be aligned to drive straight with the rear out of square, but it not a good solution because it causes added tire wear on both ends of the car.
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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dogbone
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Posted: Aug/30/2016 at 9:10am |
I didn't notice any broken parts when I had the tranny out. I replaced the rubber mount that bolts to the trans, and the smaller ones on the trans mount seemed to be ok. Didn't really check the straightness of the tube itself. I'll get my son to drive it down the road and I'll follow to see if it runs straight. I've seen cars that crab down the road.
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64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam
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farna wrote: