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Water Pump Info circa 2019 |
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Repsolroger
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/23/2021 Location: washington Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Posted: Jan/01/2022 at 6:43pm |
Edelbrock - Water Pump AMC Short Style 1968-72 (Part No. 8831) will this fit a 1969 390 .. some sites say yes...then others dont...and some ask if my engine is a W or X ... that stuff is expensive expensive ...so want to make sure before i add to cart and send it to someone |
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1969 sst javelin restomod
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304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9081 |
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To add to your great thread...
I purchased a standard GMB pump for mockup for working on my mixed year parts engine setup. GMB 110-1040A It seems that it shares the same shaft specs as the performance GMB pump. QUESTION: IF the diameter is the same from flange to bearing for the oem late pump version... Other than the impeller difference, I assume the GMB shaft design with its corresponding bearing, will be a better option than the factory with smaller diameter shaft at the bearing? Only if we had a bearing OD to compare with between the GMB pump and late model oem pump, to see if there is a slightly larger bearing bore OD at the GMB snout, for the larger GMB bearing ID... "If" the above question is validated by a confirmation on bearing ID size differneces between OEM and GMB. |
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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
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ChillyB
AMC Nut Joined: Nov/14/2018 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 371 |
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You're right. Mine is for a 73.
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Greyhounds_AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2009 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Yours is a later model long pump, and my Napa pump was an early model short pump for 68-72. It had an AMC part number on it so had to be a reman, I bought it around 2001 or so.
We can't see the top of yours from the pic but the later model pump will have the bypass clocked at the 12:00 position as well as the 4-3/4" or so length.
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1968 AMX 390 w/T5
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ChillyB
AMC Nut Joined: Nov/14/2018 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 371 |
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How old is the photo of that NAPA water pump? Here's the one I just got a month ago. Looks very different drom that photo.
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Greyhounds_AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2009 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I measured and found that the GMB aluminum pump only has 3/16" of clearance between the back of the fan mounting flange and the shaft seal face.
So even if the lower tier 110-1040AL version has a 0.625" shaft all the way, there's not enough room to push the flange on further and make it line up with an early crank pulley. It would need to be pressed on 5/16" further, and there's only 3/16" available.
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1968 AMX 390 w/T5
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Greyhounds_AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2009 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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So I ordered the GMB-1040P, which is their aluminum high-performance pump version. Again, here's their lineup: 1) 110-2908: Cast iron
stock replacement pump, long housing, late model design. 2) 110-1040AL: Aluminum housing long late model pump. 3) 110-1040P: High-performance version of 1040AL. They tout the 1040P high-performance version as having a better impeller and better bearings, and compared to the stock replacement version that appears to be true. The shaft on the 1040P is larger than stock at 0.750" diameter, and is turned down to 0.625" for the pump mounting flange, which is really nice as then the bearings are larger. Unfortunately it does prevent us from pressing the flange on further to make a long pump into a short pump. The impeller on the 1040P is a different shape than the stock replacement version, having the same number of vanes, but they are longer. The lower cost 1040AL appears to use the same impeller design, so I expect that the difference between the 1040AL and the high-performance 1040P is the larger shaft/bearings used in the 1040P. Here you can see the larger shaft diameter as it comes out of the pump housing, then back down to 0.625" for the mounting flange. For comparison, here's a NAPA pump, the shaft is 0.625" diameter all the way through.If you consider that the GMB pump flange location is actually 3/8" further out than the stock pump shown (late model vs early pump), you realize that the GMB housing extends out further than the stock unit did, placing the bearing closer to the load. And if you compare the relative diameters of the bearing housing area to the diameter of the fan/pulley flange, it's looks like the GMB casting is a bit larger OD in the bearing area. And it has a bunch of reinforcing ribs as well.
Edited by Greyhounds_AMX - May/21/2019 at 12:44pm |
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1968 AMX 390 w/T5
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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I have a Flowkooler aluminum pump (GMB with Flowkooler impeller) with a thermostatic clutch 18" fixed fan (heavy compared to a stock flex fan), PS with AGR pump, Delco alternator on my '74 Javelin 401. Sees 6500 rpm on occasion (rev limiter). Been fine for 10 years, but just a summer cruiser so not lots of miles. Different combinations will have different harmonics and different loading. If you're concerned, save up and buy an Edelbrock pump.
Hope this helps, RD.
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bigbad69
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Ottawa, Ont. Status: Offline Points: 6614 |
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There are lots of variables. If the bearing and bearing retainer (in this case the pump casting) design is marginal, some will fail, and some won't.
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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10
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SC397
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/30/2009 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5428 |
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There are at least 2 guys in the Detroit area that rebuilds original water pumps if anyone is interested. I have been taking a few of my cores with the part numbers in to this fellow. He is very reasonable, ships, and has a one year warranty. I will post up pictures etc. when I get a chance. Dan Bailey 4706 Detroit St Dearborn Hts, MI 48125 313-530-2893 Edited by SC397 - May/16/2019 at 7:31am |
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