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CeC technical information? |
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73Gremlin401 
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Joined: Mar/02/2013 Location: Stmbt Sprgs CO Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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 Posted: Jun/07/2019 at 11:27am |
THIS! So very very true. the 02 sensor is everything. Every time I talk with someone about how much they hate how their feedback BBD motor runs, and how they are going to tear everything off, I always ask them if they've replaced the 02 sensor. And invariably the answer is either no, or that they insisted their motor doesn't have one, because it has a carb. And it's just about the cheapest 02 sensor on the market - I think I paid around $5.00 for mine on Rock Auto. yes, it's a pain in the rump to get to, but the instant I changed mine out - I immediately had a better running motor. But trying to convince the 'I'm gonna tear everything off' guys this is like talking to a brick wall.
Edited by 73Gremlin401 - Jun/07/2019 at 11:34am |
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73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727. 81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd 83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto  |
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tomj
AMC Addicted 
Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539 |
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Posted: Jun/09/2019 at 10:12pm |
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73gremlin401 -- ok that makes a lot more sense -- a multi-step rod-in-jet. well within what a stepper can reasonably do. that's a lot of interim complexity. developing EFI was difficult and slow. it's easy now that a zillion hours have gone into the software. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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MIPS
AMC Nut
Joined: Mar/11/2019 Location: Kamloops, BC Status: Offline Points: 347 |
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Posted: Jun/09/2019 at 11:05pm |
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Just a heads up, I went back and re-read the documentation and I am wrong about how many steps the stepper motor can do by a HUGE amount.
I said something like 16? That's way off. Take the number above, not the number I said back on page 4. |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Posted: Jun/10/2019 at 4:09am |
No, it's worse. I've talked to brick walls before, and at least when talking to a brick wall all you hear the sound of your own voice echoing back at you and nothing more. Walls don't say nasty things back at you when you tell them something they don't want to hear. The key to happiness in owning 1970's and 1980's cars is not giving one single flying fack what people think, and caring even less about changing what they think. That's just owning AMC's in general. You have to not care what Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge people think and ignore the horrible and totally false things they sometimes say to you. |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19675 |
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Posted: Jun/10/2019 at 5:28am |
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The stepper needles in a BBD are tapered, not stepped like Carter carb jet rods. Makes them more adjustable. |
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Frank Swygert
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MIPS
AMC Nut
Joined: Mar/11/2019 Location: Kamloops, BC Status: Offline Points: 347 |
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Posted: Sep/17/2019 at 11:19pm |
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I've been pretty busy the entire summer however I was able to get the complete "Super D" ECU system that shipped in Eagles from 1983 onwards. The one pictured below came out of an '87. The last year an Eagle shipped with the AMC name.
 The same harness, but this time with 99% of the parts identified.  The ECU itself is still a Ford product but now with a new enclosure, connectors and board layout. This is so new I do not have any diagrams or documentation for it.   While it is a new PCB inside is neither potted or too far different from the previously pictured CeC. This is likely because so much of the harness and so many of the sensors have not really changed since the CeC. There are a lot of similar components. There is also a bit more going on but presumably it is additional control for the purce solenoid and knock sensor. I have however noticed that the part numbers on all the IC's do not cross-reference to their manufacturers. It is likely Ford had the various chip manufacturers print one of Ford's own part numbers on them. That way only ford or AMC could identify components as they had the cross-reference. For the rest of us we were out of luck.   Edited by MIPS - Sep/17/2019 at 11:22pm |
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MIPS
AMC Nut
Joined: Mar/11/2019 Location: Kamloops, BC Status: Offline Points: 347 |
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Posted: Oct/08/2019 at 12:23am |
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I have managed to secure one of AMC's ET-501 diagnostic kits for the CeC and related wiring. Cost me about $250 shipped.
 I've made a writeup on the kit here, however I see other much older threads here from people asking for extra info on the tester and notably the manual so (unless Dropbox kills the links) you can download a PDF of the manual that I scanned and assembled here and if you are missing the test chips and have the ability to burn new EPROMs you can download their images here. |
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pacerman
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Posted: Oct/08/2019 at 10:57am |
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That is neat. If I can stay away from owning another post-1979 or so AMC I will never need it but thank you for the effort. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539 |
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Posted: Oct/08/2019 at 11:57am |
the reason for that isn't (primarily) secrecy. it's a side effect of how the semi industry works. so moto, or national, or ti, or etc, makes a new chip (processor, op amp, whatever) that (Ford) wants to use. Ford's CeC product design life is say 5 years, then then need spares, and development, etc so they will want tthat processor to be available for (guessing) 7 years. National has it's own dev schedule, not Fords. so National tells Ford if you commit to buying 1,000,000 chips over hte next 7 years, we'll freeze a copy of this design for you. at that point it gets a proprietary part number, and National's existing design is "frozen" over in the proprietary drawings etc. at least at first, thre Ford part is identical to the National part, and National makes extra money for simply silkscreening a new number on top. but if in say 3 years National wants to "improve" the chip -- which would force Ford to redesign, or more likely, induce possible side effects that could ruin Ford -- National now has to make two chips; the old one with the Ford number, then their new one. that costs more (two production lines) hence the extra charge up front for the proprietary part. it should be fairly easy to ID the proprietary chip. in 1980 there just weren't many small processors. the two wavy lines (logo) on the big 40 pin cookie i think is National Semiconductor. the hard part will be finding a 1980 Natl Semi catalog! it might be an 8048/8051 second source, or one of their wacky homegrown jobs. you only have to get 90% close. the diffs will be relatively small, like different pins, or a couple of instructions, like GM got out of Motorola for their TBI system; it was a 6811 with a couple of oddball I/O instructions added or changed. those fall out of context in code disassembly. none of that era's parts had encryption certainly, and lots of them have readable PROM. i assume from the pic of the green board there's no separate PROM/EPROM, so it's a chip masked with code or burned at the factory. assuming you wanna look at the code... it's functioning is not so complex that you couldn't work out what its doing with a scope, in a running engine... or build a bench-top simulator. for that i'd write code in something dimwittedly deterministic like a 120 MHz "Arduino", my current favorite the Adafruit M4 Grand Central, 54 I/O pins! faster than a 1990's desktop! $30! lol. most of the work there would be translating the 3.3V logic ins and outs to 12V. DIY or buy. i bet you could guess at most of the inputs and sequences.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539 |
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Posted: Oct/08/2019 at 12:04pm |
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nice investigative work, BTW! ignore the haters, there's a lot of interesting lore in there. and yeah i had a 1975 California V8 Gremlin, with the buckets'o'smog under the hood, and i got it all to work 100% super sweet with all that junk intact. just RTFM and diagnosis and replace all the hoses. the problem with old-fashioned smog stuff is that it's maintenance-intensive; hoses go bad, and no self-diagnostics to display "FILTER CLOG" on a display, it just runs badly! haters hate vacuum wipers for the same reason. sure there's plenty of reason makers swirtched to electric; but it's not like AMC (or anyone) shipped cars for 50 years with non-working wiper systems. duh. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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MIPS wrote: