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A833 in a '64 american? |
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330inthemorning
AMC Nut Joined: Mar/25/2019 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Posted: Apr/14/2019 at 2:00pm |
i have a 195.6 3-speed OD in my american wagon. i'm considering upgrading to a 199 out of a '69 rambler. i really want to make this car more drivable, but keep it an MPG miser.
i hear said that the T-5 out of some mustangs is a very easy swap. i also know jeeps used the chrysler (new process) A833, but probably with the later engines. i've searched, and it doesn't seem this is a trans that anyone favors for their ramblers. i happen to have an A833OD out of a mopar F-body (short tail). i'm wondering if anyone has ever done such a swap. i really want to find a T-5, but this is what i have, so if i can make it work, i may. definitely need to weigh out the labor and cost involved. thanks.
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mixed up
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/16/2015 Location: Monroe mich Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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one thing because the 64-65 were shorter front end than the 66-69 and the 199 232 are long than the 195 for the engine bay yes it will fit but fire wall may need cutting or the radiator might need to be put in front of the baffles I put a 232 in mine at first and cut the firewall then I went v8
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69 amx 290 auto
65 220 290 4spd 80 ford fairmont |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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i have not done this -- but as mixed up says, the '64's are short up front. the 199 is supposed to bolt in OK but you need a short-shaft water pump. you migt have to notch the lower portion of the valance below the radiator so that ou can move it forward (flip the brackets on the radiator). i've had to do this last on to get a 232 in 1 195.6 aluminum OHV car, but that was a classic. today, you can buy cheap remote electric water pumps with far more capacity than needed. with 3/4" hose nipples, there's a BMW pump available for $150. i have one here i'm helping af riend install on a 2-rotor wankel. i made a controller for that but you could just wire it to ignition with a relay. then you'd need to make a blockoff plate with a 3/4" 90-degree hose nipple. a fairly simple flat plate with tapped hole for the nipple. put the pump anywhere you want. but you'd gain 4 - 6" of front clearance and find a belt for alternator only. i'm running an all-electronic cooling system with a Ford pickup intercooler pump as my main pump. it's more than adequate, and you can buy 'em at Autozone. hoever i'm crazy and am perfectly fine with non-standard fixes.... |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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To put a 199/232/258 in a 64-65 American: 1. Move the radiator forward. Do this by taking it to a shop and having the side mounts flipped by moving from side to side (left on right, etc.). Then just reinstall the radiator. There is a cover plate that goes on the top support between the hood latch and radiator that has to be removed. 2. Get a 65 American 232 or a 71-86 CJ-5 (NOT CJ-7!!) water pump. You will also need the water pump pulley, which will be harder to find. You might be able to find a suitable depth and diameter pulley from a salvage yard from some other make and model. Diameter can vary some, just has to be close. Depth has to be correct for the V-belt to stay on though. You could use longer bolts and spacers to align a flatter pulley. Heck, the 196 water pump pulley might work, I haven't tried, but it should be close. 3. Use the newer six motor mounts with 10 or 11 gauge 2"x3" rectangular tubing between the crossmember and engine. The tubing needs to be about 4-5" long. Drill the tubing to fit the motor mounts and bolt on, with the tubing parallel to the crossmember, the lower edge even with the rubber mounts. Then lower the engine in place and mark where the holes in the crossmember for the original 196 mounts hit the tubing. drill and tap for a 3/8" FINE THREAD bolt. Use a lock washer and lock-tite on the bolt. 10 or 11 gauge is ~1/8" thick, just enough for fine threads, not enough for coarse threads. If you prefer weld a piece of 1/4" or 1/8" plate inside the tubing for a bit more grip, but I've run a 4.6L stroker like this with no issues for many years, currently have my hopped up 4.0L installed this way. You should have about 1/4" between crossmember and oil pan. If not, you can shim the tubing pieces up with plates or fender washers between the tubing and CM. I wouldn't use regular washers due to the smaller area. The electric water pump idea is a good one, and Tom has proven it in use. This isn't a standard water pump turned by an electric motor like the drag racers use, but a complete replacement. Good enough for a BMW factory install, good enough for anything! Then you just run a short belt from the crank to the alternator. If running more than just an alternator things would be a bit more complicated, and you might need an idler mounted on the water pump block-off plate. |
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Frank Swygert
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330inthemorning
AMC Nut Joined: Mar/25/2019 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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thanks to all who responded. that answers the first half of my question. now, the A833...
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Any trans that was used on a 4.0L will bolt right up to a 72 or later 232/258. That leaves the 64-71 199/232 (and 71 only 258) out. I don't know if the A833 was used in any Jeeps though.I can't find a reference listing it. The only four speeds that come up are the T18, T176/177/178, SR4 (only 80-82 in the CJ), and T4 (successor to the SR4, a bit stronger). A list is here: You will find some five speeds also. The BA10/5 is fine for a car, but wasn't strong enough for a 4.0L off roading a bit. That's why Jeepers deride it, but I've known a couple people with street vehicles that never had a problem with it at all, at least one with well over 100K on it. Never driven real hard though, in a Comanche used to pull a john boat and light hauling. The AX15 is the strongest, but hard to find as Jeepers like it. Best bet is a early Fox body Mustang T-5.
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Frank Swygert
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5457 |
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I didn't know that the A833's of any flavor were used in Jeeps. It's just not an off-road transmission. As to using in an American, I can't give you any specifics but just thinking about it gives me the heebie-jeebies. My advice to you would be to sell the A833 and get something that has a proven track record as a swap candidate. I would be the first to admit that virtually anything can be done with enough time, money, and determination but I fear at the end of this road you'll be asking yourself "What was I thinking". Just my opinion.
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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330inthemorning
AMC Nut Joined: Mar/25/2019 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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seems as though the best course of action would be to off this and opt for a T-5 if i ever went that route.
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