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199 ci questions

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 199 ci questions
    Posted: Feb/11/2019 at 6:03am
Probably the passage around that head bolt is sludged up. That's why the head bolt diameter is reduced slightly, to open it up for more oil flow. The better the flow the less likely it is to sludge up. today's oil is less likely to sludge than 1960s-70s oil also, but with the tighter tolerances used now there are still some issues with some vehicles, and they are more touchy to viscosity. Can't just throw in a bit thicker oil if it uses a little oil anymore due to small passages. I still remember when Chrysler started using small passages in their new V-6s in the late 80s/early 90s. 0W-30 and 5W-30 oil was being specified, but many oil change places mostly carried 10W-30 was their cheapest, and that's what many people went with due to cost and "that's what they always used".  Many an engine didn't last long! The Ford Triton would suffer the same fate, but people quickly learned to use the lighter oils. Even my 4.0L wouldn't mind running10W-40 or even 20W-50, though I wouldn't run the thick stuff since it's still relatively low mileage. Could get by with it in the middle of the hot summer though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/10/2019 at 10:37am
I remember the Ford Y blocks with those overhead lines and thought they were quite ugly and that is why I kept the line as low as possible. 

Yes it does take a little more work getting the cover off, longer to seal it up. If I ever take a head off one again I'll try and figure out what the problem is. I remember cleaning the head before putting it on, getting oil up the block, and was surprised when it din't make it up through the head. It could be as simple as a problem with the head gasket. Perhaps OP is having the same problem after his overhaul.




Edited by vinny - Feb/10/2019 at 10:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/10/2019 at 10:09am
Your version (assuming you put it together...) is a little harder than the factory kit. Have to take yours apart carefully to remove the valve cover. Factory kit goes in from the top through a grommet, just have to take the fitting off the top and lift the valve cover off. But both work, that's the important part! And how often do you take the valve cover off? Shouldn't have to unless there is a major problem since the 199/232/258/4.0 uses hydraulic lifters (196 uses solid, except for the AL version).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/09/2019 at 5:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/09/2019 at 12:25am
Another version of an overhead oiler. Figure it all out first before drilling any holes. 

Remove the valve cover and drill a 1/2" hole through it just above #5 spark plug, drill and tap a 1/4-28 hole into the oil cavity of the head, reinstall valve cover, discard the needle of the grease fitting shown in the picture, pretend that piece of pipe is only 2" long and hook it all together for the overhead oil line that tees into where the oil pressure sending unit goes. Then seal around the hole in the valve cover and good to go. As the line is quite short it is not nearly so visible as one going down through the top of the valve cover. Most of it is hidden behind the transmission filler tube, hence the curve in the brake line. 

Edited by vinny - Feb/09/2019 at 12:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/09/2019 at 12:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2019 at 6:44am
Check the spark plugs. A freshly rebuilt engine will burn a good bit of oil until it's broke in. If the plugs are really bad just go ahead and get new. Run it a couple hundred miles and check again, clean while you have them out. Might not be the problem, but it could just not be broken in good and making a little noise. I'd definitely do the head bolt mod regardless. Might not be absolutely necessary, as the engines ran originally just fine -- took a little time and neglect to sludge up a bit. Type of oil made a difference too -- I remember Quaker State and other Pennsylvania crude based oils used to sludge up more than others -- but not today. Oil formulations have changed drastically since the 60s!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2019 at 4:31am
When putting my engine back together and before bolting the head down I remember turning the oil pump and oil coming up through the block as it should. After the head was bolted down and the oil pump was turned oil did not make it up the pedestal to the rocker shaft, at which time I put in an overhead oil line. Probably the head should have been removed for further investigation like if there was a problem with the head gasket or what else it could be but I just carried on with the external line. I'll post pictures of how it was done but that may take a few days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2019 at 12:39am
sheesh wtf -- i cannot seem to edit an error in the URL.

matts old cars is at


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2019 at 12:36am
if the engine was assembled with the wrong cam bearing, and that's starving the top end, all is not lost.

i finally recalled where the info is -- ">http://mattsoldcars.com. matt was a regular on the old AMC-list (which if feel this forum is an inheritor of/to). here's the top-end-oil fix page: http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/boltmod.shtml

i had, and i think still have, one of these modded bolts. it would not be that difficult to fabricate in a home shop, and seriously not a big deal at a paid-for shop. both the bolt AND the valve cover need to be modified.

unlike Matt I will try to describe it! lol

1) get an extra rocker shaft bolt and drill a hole down from the top, through the head into the shank. the hole depth is such that it the bottom of the hole is in line with the hollow rocker shaft.

2) a small cross-hole is drilled into the shank of the bolt. the hole is drilled in the part of the bolt that exists in the middle of the hollow rocker shaft. drill the hole through to the previously drilled longtitudinal hole.

3) the top hole (in the head) is counterbored to 3/16", about 1/4" down.

4) into this hole a short section, 3" or so? of "brake line" is installed. this is brazed in place.

5) drill a 3/8" hole "in the right place" on the valve cover. insert a rubber grommet into this hole, that has a 3/16" id. see below for "right place".

6) install all this junk and torque it down.

7) plumb a 3/16" brake line up from the main gallery (easy) up to the tube nbow sticking out of the valve cover; it gets joined to the plumbing with a slip-on compression ferule and nut.

each step is not that big a deal. i had one junk/core engine that had this setup.

it's easier than a second engine teardown.



THE RIGHT PLACE FOR THE HOLE:

you can either use heroically precise and arcane measurement to locate the hole; find the original AMC field service errata with the measurement...

...or my method for things like this, which is to install the new bolt temporarily without brazing the tubing; chop a section of tube, experimentally, until it *just* touches the inside of the valve cover when installed, take the cover out, put blue tape at the spot, put the valve cover on and wiggle it to make a mark.

another choice if you screw up is to cut a larger hole, like 1", and cut a 2" square of sheet metal, drill and grommet a hole in it, shape it to match the curve of the valve cover, attach the valve cover so the tube sticks out the large hole, place the 2" thing over it and sheet-metal screw it in the righrt location. you could probably conjure up a way to leave an inverted flare nut on the tube and make a two-piece cap, etc.




Edited by tomj - Feb/08/2019 at 1:13am
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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