Mandatory oil system mods

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   Relevant historical info about the AMC V8 and OILING or the Oil System performancefrom the 1969 Car Craft Magazine 4-part Article 'AM Si, Junkee No!' about where Car Craft
and Vic Edelbrock built their own 'clone' 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMX 390 car, motor and all.

"One other problem we had noticed was a lack of oil to the rocker arms.
An examination of the solid lifters showed a flutter valve underneath the lifter
button that meters oil through a small .050 hole.  From here the oil travels
through an .080 hole in the button to the tubular pushrods, and feeds the
rocker arms.  We removed the flutter valve from the lifter, hoping this would
allow additional oil to the topside, only to find out that this wasn't the hot set up either."

"caption 3 - Oiling problems with the lifters was one of the puzzles that Vic
Edelbrock ( left ) and Bobby Meeks had to solve during testing."

"With everything set back together, the engine was re-fired, and during the
next few minutes Vic, Bobby, Murray, and myself kept watchful eyes on the many
dyno gauges, especially the one measuring oil pressure.  With all systems
green, Vic preset the Heenan & Froode dyno at 4000 rpm, and pulled the throttle
wide open.  The power started to come on strong when suddenly the oil pressure
took another nose dive.  Vic cut the throttle, and we all looked at each other
totally dismayed.  A thorough checkout showed everything in working order, so
we tried another power run.  Same results.  After five or six seconds of full
power the oil pressure would go away.  As soon as the power was shut down the
second time, I pulled the dipstick to check the oil supply.  My suspicions were
confirmed, as the stick was bone dry.  ( ! An 8-Quart Aviaid Oil Pan ! )
Our lifter modification was working too well.  We were pumping oil topside faster
than what it could drain back into the pan.  After a few seconds at full power,
the sump would drain itself to the point where the pick up would suck air, and
whammy - no oil pressure.  Oh well, back to the drawing boards !  This time we
tried a happy medium ( median ) to determine the amount of oil needed topside. 
The flutter valve was replaced in the lifters, but the .050 metering hole was
enlarged to .063 which solved the problem."

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PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Mandatory oil system mods Posted: Dec/08/2019 at 4:15pm
	Relevant historical info about the AMC V8 and OILING or the Oil System performance from the 1969 Car Craft Magazine 4-part Article 'AM Si, Junkee No!' about where Car Craft and Vic Edelbrock built their own 'clone' 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMX 390 car, motor and all. "One other problem we had noticed was a lack of oil to the rocker arms. An examination of the solid lifters showed a flutter valve underneath the lifter button that meters oil through a small .050 hole. From here the oil travels through an .080 hole in the button to the tubular pushrods, and feeds the rocker arms. We removed the flutter valve from the lifter, hoping this would allow additional oil to the topside, only to find out that this wasn't the hot set up either." "caption 3 - Oiling problems with the lifters was one of the puzzles that Vic Edelbrock ( left ) and Bobby Meeks had to solve during testing." "With everything set back together, the engine was re-fired, and during the next few minutes Vic, Bobby, Murray, and myself kept watchful eyes on the many dyno gauges, especially the one measuring oil pressure. With all systems green, Vic preset the Heenan & Froode dyno at 4000 rpm, and pulled the throttle wide open. The power started to come on strong when suddenly the oil pressure took another nose dive. Vic cut the throttle, and we all looked at each other totally dismayed. A thorough checkout showed everything in working order, so we tried another power run. Same results. After five or six seconds of full power the oil pressure would go away. As soon as the power was shut down the second time, I pulled the dipstick to check the oil supply. My suspicions were confirmed, as the stick was bone dry. ( ! An 8-Quart Aviaid Oil Pan ! ) Our lifter modification was working too well. We were pumping oil topside faster than what it could drain back into the pan. After a few seconds at full power, the sump would drain itself to the point where the pick up would suck air, and whammy - no oil pressure. Oh well, back to the drawing boards ! This time we tried a happy medium ( median ) to determine the amount of oil needed topside. The flutter valve was replaced in the lifters, but the .050 metering hole was enlarged to .063 which solved the problem."
	Link to a Short YouTube Burnout Video

PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/30/2019 at 12:06am
	Thought I would add this. These are NOT my pictures or my modification, and I fail to remember where I saved these from, so I am unable to give credit where credit is do, or otherwise. No endorsement, just something I have saved from somewhere from who knows how long ago about making a Modification to the AMC V8 Oil Pump Pressure Relief Bypass Plunger Circuit Vent... edit - Forum Member Red Devil authored the below Pictures and Oil Pressure Relief Vent Modification. Edited by PHAT69AMX - Aug/12/2019 at 6:14pm
	Link to a Short YouTube Burnout Video

PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/22/2019 at 2:14am
	Not intentionally double posting... but thought it belonged or should be in both places / threads... Well look what I stumbled upon on the Holley / MSD / all else they now own Web Site... in their Troubleshooting Techniques area... "Modifying AMC oiling for performance" hmm.., any of you all seen this already ? https://www.holley.com/support/troubleshooting_techniques/#AMCModify
	Link to a Short YouTube Burnout Video

Trader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881	Post Options Post Reply Quote Trader Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: Apr/21/2019 at 8:52pm
	I don't see this one in the thread, and have forgotten about it until I was at one today. AMC V8's used several different oil pan pick ups. The one on the left is good as it is 0.050" heavier tube, better concave internal screen, no hole on top, but the extension if not removed actually goes into the block oil passage and cuts off 1/8" or more of the pickup passage. This is 1970 and 1971 as far as I can determine. The round piece you see is 1/4" brass rod that I have brazed to the bottom and removed the nylon button.

Trader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6881	Post Options Post Reply Quote Trader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/14/2019 at 6:22am
	Someone at AMO was making AMC decals on there home printer to make stick on sleeves for their oil filters. Nice touch!

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/14/2019 at 4:43am
	Sure you can... just a little spray paint...
	Frank Swygert

Jmerican Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/29/2016 Location: Seattle, Wa Status: Offline Points: 585	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jmerican Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 2:46pm
	there ya go. Ford filter. Built in bypass. Big capacity. I like the Royal Purple. Good media, thick can. Purple. Can’t help that.

White70JavelinSST Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4866	Post Options Post Reply Quote White70JavelinSST Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 2:23pm
	The Mopar adapter fits the Motorcraft FL-1A filter and others as well, anything that matches to the FL-1A.
	70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972

PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 10:52am
	No longer having anything myself to build I'm unsure just what I'd do. But after reading a Smokey Yunik article in a 1980 Hot Rod Magazine I'd probably look into a remote oil filter mounting with 2 filters to reduce oil flow restriction / back pressure through the filter(s). An I'm unclear on what Filter the "new" late model Mopar Filter Fitting fits... The "new" double threaded piece that the filter screws to.
	Link to a Short YouTube Burnout Video

ChillyB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Nov/14/2018 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 371	Post Options Post Reply Quote ChillyB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/12/2019 at 2:49pm
	Regarding filter bypass, and after a fair amount of reading on this forum and others, I've concluded there is no reason to retain the factory bypass in the filter housing. But now I'm down to two options: 1. Run 100% filtration. Not sure I'm there yet. Yes, the housing bypass was eliminated with late engines because it was unreliable. But did they concurrently switch to a filter with integral bypass? If so how did the filter's integral bypass pressure compare to the one eliminated from the housing? Maybe the same. Lots of modern filter have an integral bypass that opens at single-digit psid. Hardly any modern filters open at pressures less than 20 psid. But this is differential pressure, not absolute pressure. So if your gauge reads 60 psi you may still only have 5 psid across the filter bypass valve (so still closed). 2. Eliminate the housing bypass, use a modern filter with integral bypass. Which filter should I choose? What bypass psid is best? Unless I'm using a high volume pump (I'm not), or starting with a filter that is restrictive when new (I hope not) then I dont think it matters much. If your filter differential pressure increases significantly then your bearings already lost the battle. Effectively maintaining oil flow while collecting all of the bearing bronze and lead probably isnt a winning strategy. The important thing (my opinion) is that you KNOW your bypass hasnt been blocked open by chunk of rogue RTV for the last three oil changes. Unless your engine is shedding massive bits of itself a little bypassing here and there wont hurt anything. 3. Here's what I think I'll actually do. Block the bypass in the housing. For initial break-in, and for a series of rapid succession filter changes (like four in the first day) I'll run filters with NO internal bypass so I provide maximum flow of 100% filtered oil because my engine WILL be shedding bits of break-in debris. After that I'll switch to a high quality filter with internal bypass.Perhaps I'll compare my measured pressure at the gage for each style of filter so see if it seems like my filter is bypassing at high RPMs.