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AMC V8 'Police' oil pan variant

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/06/2019 at 4:40pm
My mistake. I was looking at so many oil pans and designs after this thread I got the LS and small block Chebv Canton circle track wet sump pans mixed up.
After looking at so many aftermarket goodies they have for Cheby's, your eyes glaze over!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 12:26am
You guys have no idea how good you have it. Buick V6's and V8's are far, far, far worse.

-No oil pan baffles at all.
-Tiny oil pump with low output volume hanging awkwardly off the timing cover and made of Aluminum (sound familliar?). Just take the AMC pump and make it half the capacity.
-Weak and poorly lubricated oil pump drive gears that strip unless the oil pump pressure is regulated to 40 PSI maximum.
-The oil pump pickup tube is not threaded into the block. It is bolted to it with a gasket that can and does leak so the oil pump sucks air.
-Weak main and rod caps.
-Undersized fasterners with excessively high torque specs on thin castings. Stripped threads, broken bolts, and cracked castings if you follow OE torque spec. You do not use a torque wrench on Buick engines.
-Extremely poor oil return to the pan. Far worse than AMC.
-Low oil flow to rocker arms on purpose, which overheats the valve springs. Increasing flow floods the valve covers with oil, starving the pump and causing the engine to burn oil...or explode. Or both.
-Poor water jacket design that transfers more heat to the oil rather than to the coolant, so oil temperatures rise greatly as the engine is run harder...thinning out the oil on an engine that already has poor lubrication.

I get in trouble when I drive Buicks, because I drive them like I would an AMC then wonder why the Buick explodes after only a few thousand miles. I can build a stock AMC and it'll be fine but I have to beef up and improve a Buick for it to stand up to my driving habits.


So 5 quarts or 6 quarts doesn't matter, AMC's are still more durable than Buicks.


Edited by FSJunkie - Jan/07/2019 at 12:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 7:26am
It's a good thing that I didn't know that about Buicks when I owned them, or I wouldn't have had as much fun. I somehow managed to run the wheels off a 1968 Riviera 430, a 69 GS 400 convertible 4 speed, a 70 GS Stage 1, and 2 other 70 GS 455's without blowing them up. If I had known they would easily self destruct, I would have just putted around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 8:04am
Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

It's a good thing that I didn't know that about Buicks when I owned them, or I wouldn't have had as much fun. I somehow managed to run the wheels off a 1968 Riviera 430, a 69 GS 400 convertible 4 speed, a 70 GS Stage 1, and 2 other 70 GS 455's without blowing them up. If I had known they would easily self destruct, I would have just putted around.


Ditto with my 65 401. Though, the nail heads mostly had issues with re builders not properly clocking the cam bearings, don't know if that holds for later gen buicks.

Though I recall the V6 had oiling issues that plagued it for any serious endurance use, such as Indy. By the time they got a grasp on it, Olds Quad4 and Chevy V6 started to gain over Buick's old design, so it did not pay to go any further with buick V6 program.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 8:55am
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:

You guys have no idea how good you have it. Buick V6's and V8's are far, far, far worse.

-No oil pan baffles at all.
-Tiny oil pump with low output volume hanging awkwardly off the timing cover and made of Aluminum (sound familliar?). Just take the AMC pump and make it half the capacity.
-Weak and poorly lubricated oil pump drive gears that strip unless the oil pump pressure is regulated to 40 PSI maximum.
-The oil pump pickup tube is not threaded into the block. It is bolted to it with a gasket that can and does leak so the oil pump sucks air.
-Weak main and rod caps.
-Undersized fasterners with excessively high torque specs on thin castings. Stripped threads, broken bolts, and cracked castings if you follow OE torque spec. You do not use a torque wrench on Buick engines.
-Extremely poor oil return to the pan. Far worse than AMC.
-Low oil flow to rocker arms on purpose, which overheats the valve springs. Increasing flow floods the valve covers with oil, starving the pump and causing the engine to burn oil...or explode. Or both.
-Poor water jacket design that transfers more heat to the oil rather than to the coolant, so oil temperatures rise greatly as the engine is run harder...thinning out the oil on an engine that already has poor lubrication.

I get in trouble when I drive Buicks, because I drive them like I would an AMC then wonder why the Buick explodes after only a few thousand miles. I can build a stock AMC and it'll be fine but I have to beef up and improve a Buick for it to stand up to my driving habits.


So 5 quarts or 6 quarts doesn't matter, AMC's are still more durable than Buicks.
  I would agree to a point. But if it blew up after a couple thousand miles.. then whoever rebuilt it didnt do it right.  I remember these buick V6s when they were new.   The 3.0, 3.3, and 3.8 v6s in GMs FWD cars are very very good. A friend of mine dailys a 2006 Pontiac GP with 410,000 miles on it and it has the 3.8 V6. And it is the original untouched 3.8.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nda racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Sonic Silver Sonic Silver wrote:

It's a good thing that I didn't know that about Buicks when I owned them, or I wouldn't have had as much fun. I somehow managed to run the wheels off a 1968 Riviera 430, a 69 GS 400 convertible 4 speed, a 70 GS Stage 1, and 2 other 70 GS 455's without blowing them up. If I had known they would easily self destruct, I would have just putted around.
 
Thank You.
 
I have a Buddy who ran nothing but Buicks back in the 80s. Had a few "Monza's" with 3.8s in em. One with a stick and a alum intake and 4 bbl added he'd matt both pedals, let valve float be the rev limited and dump the clutch.
 
He had a 66 Skylark that came with a V6 he beat on. Pulled it running fine for a 72 350 Buick, which he destroyed the factory 2 spd with, 3 TH350s, a TH400 finally lasted. 3-4 rear ends. He'd neutral slam it all the time, dump it in reverse at 70 etc. The Buick engine never failed. Everything else did. Broke a few driveshafts and broke his console loose off the floor from the driveshaft hammering on it. He was crazy and treated everything like a rental.
 
Anyone familiar with western PA here?
 
This was 1989ish, before computers and cell phones, so we'd go out riding around aimlessly all night, every night........We were North of Portersville Pa at "Eppingers'" restaurant (it's now Last Minit Mart) at about 3am when the ol Buhog started overheating more than usual, ticking and knocking. This engine was an oil burner, and he hadn't checked the oil in awhile. He checked the stick, nothing on it. So we high balled our way back down RT19, then jumped on RT79 to Zelienople to get oil. He ran the Car wide open the whole way there. You can feel free to map it to see how far that is.
 
We get to Uni-mart in town, he buys 2 qts of oil, puts em in, still nothing on the stick, buys two more, 1/2 low. He fires it up, the lifters are chattering. So what's he do, tachs it the F out valve floating it till the lifters quieted down. There was still some slight noise for awhile, but he could tolerate it. He had a violent temper, beat on everything, Cars, people, you name it. He'd buy the cheapest oil, filters and rarely ever change it.
 
I'm no Buick guy, so I have no reason to tell tall tales about em for some sort of biased "passionate love" for a certain brand.... I was a "Mopar or No Car" kind of guy and EVERYTHING but Mopar was complete junk to me back in those days........... but I saw this stuff take some horrendous abuse. I wouldn't have ever believed they could take that if I weren't there myself. I have to give credit where credit is due, is all.
 
The internet says they're glass, but I guess that's for having a 9-10 sec 1/4 mile car that has a 4000lb race weight..... His engines were stock.
 
 


Edited by nda racer - Jan/07/2019 at 9:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 9:54am
I've watched this Buick discussion unfold with some amusement.  One of my friends, a dyed-in-the-wool Ford freak, put it the best I've ever heard it; "All makes have their problems, it just depends what you are willing to put up with."

But to Buicks, just for giggles Google the following and see what you get for responses

Chevy V8 Oiling System
Ford V8 Oiling System
Mopar V8 Oiling System
AMC V8 Oiling System
Buick V8 Oiling System
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nda racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 10:07am
As far as AMC, the "Civilian" pan is a really nice piece IMO. A nice full baffle. Most brands have a small one around the front edge of the sump, or none at all. The legendary "Hemi Killing" 340 didn't have a baffle, they had to put a windage tray in it, for their special high performance engine, to keep the oil in the sump and not all around the crank.
 
Pretty crazy for AMC's budget they put baffles in all their grocery getters/kids haulers. They went above and beyond on that one, IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 10:40am
AMC tended to be an engineering company morre than a styling one, overall. Most things they did were done just that bit more right, like body and frame rigidity, engine materials and layout, etc. Not that they did not have their faults, but overall a well built car for it's day. 

And yes, they did absolutely have their bright spots, styling wise!

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nda racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/07/2019 at 11:01am
It was brought up elsewhere about Fords not having baffles in the Pan. But the Boss 302 got a baffle and windage tray.
 
So the AMC "commuter pan" is a factory High Performance pan. One heck of a nice pan for most to just go and pick up some bread and milk.
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