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AMC V8 'Police' oil pan variant

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1970Javelin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1970Javelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/01/2019 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

Just an extra thought, I have wondered why I have never seen anyone do outside return lines? It is mentioned in PAS and I would think that for a street driven GT style car, that would work well. If you could avoid the oil retention in the valve covers issue and perhaps put a home made baffle system around the pick up, that should be sufficient for a street driven vehicle I would think. 6 quarts in a stock pan should do it, with those mods. Full boogie competition machines are different of course.

Thoughts?

Chris 


I don't want to be hijacking, and maybe another thread can be started on this - I mentioned earlier that the police pan gave me some ideas for trap doors and baffles.  I was thinking that if the police baffle box were rotated 45 degrees and had a little larger foot print, trap doors could be added.  Above the trap doors, the walls could be taller and taper inwards to only having an opening big enough to fit the pickup through.

Some quick searching and I have found countless examples of similar designs to what I was thinking... mostly.  I haven't seen any with the tapered walls I'm picturing in my mind.  Anyway, the Aviaid oil pan in this first post is very close to what I'm talking about:

http://theamcforum.com/forum/topic7401&OB=DESC.html

The removable sump lid is a great idea.  A person could easily make a trap door box like that, that would fit a stock pickup in the center.  The box would have to be sufficiently large enough to allow the doors to swing open and not hit the pickup.  Hinge wire could be bent like this to limit the door opening to make sure it doesn't bang into the pickup or somehow get lodged open:

Picture above was from this article:  https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/holding-oil-choosing-right-high-performance-oil-pan/

To get a little more out of things, the back half of the sump could be lopped off below the tray and get replaced with a more square sump. Being that I only use AMC v8's in cars, the sump depth is a concern to me.  As much as I appreciate help when I can get it, I would rather not get help opening my oil pan on one of those tall gas-filler manhole covers at a gas station.  So, I wouldn't want my sump to be lower than the engine cross member.  Having a square sump may add .5 qt capacity, but more importantly, give more room for the baffling system and trap doors.

Having a jam nut on the oil pickup tube to the block to keep the pickup located would be a good idea.

Edit:
I forgot to mention, this trap door and baffle system does seem exotic for a street car, however, with 6 qt of oil in my daily driver 401, I do occasionally get the oil light when making maneuvers that are not all that drastic.  I have fine hot/cold pressure otherwise.  I do use a Jeep pan, not sure if that changes anything, can't remember what it looked like inside.



Edited by 1970Javelin - Jan/01/2019 at 8:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BU1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/01/2019 at 9:42pm
 Could someone post a picture of a real police pan for those of us that have never seen one?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 12:16am
The six quart police pan is the exact same stamping and has the exact same capacity of the std five quart.  The internal baffle is set at a height that is above the six quart level also.  It is less likely that engineering would set the baffles at the six quart level when they intended to run five.  Also, marketing did not design the engine, they only came up with the marketing plan after the engine was designed.  Seems much more plausible that the urban legend was true than not.  It doesn't really matter in the end because you should always run six quarts anyhow.  It fits and it prevents oil starvation at highway speeds. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 12:20am
Originally posted by BU1 BU1 wrote:

 Could someone post a picture of a real police pan for those of us that have never seen one?
 
We have a stack of them at the shop.  I'll see if I can get pics.  I believe we have a police Jeep pan also.  Wagoneers were used by more than a few police and fire depts.


Edited by 69 ambassador 390 - Jan/02/2019 at 12:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 1:23am
Remember to tilt the oil pan down towards the rear when you fill the pan to visualize the oil fill level. Don't have the pan sitting level. The engines in these cars tilt down towards the rear when they are installed in the vehicle.



Edited by FSJunkie - Jan/02/2019 at 1:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 8:00am
Originally posted by BU1 BU1 wrote:

 Could someone post a picture of a real police pan for those of us that have never seen one?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 10:16am
Some of you guys must be way crazier than I ever was with the White70.

That car with original engine in it after only pulling the heads at 90K to freshen the valve seal surfaces, has 140k miles on it now. I've never put 6 quarts in it. Granted it doesn't run down the highway at 4500 rpm sustained very often or street drag racing, I do corner it pretty heavily cuz I'm a road racer guy, but it has proven itself in longevity. I did run it at WOT for about ten miles once back in the 70s reached about 115 mph tops with the available 304 two barrel power and 3:15 gears. 5 qts in the pan.  It only had a oil light then, it never came on. Now it has a mechanical oil pressure gauge that reads 52 psi at 1500 rpm hot and stays at that pressure when revved past 2k rpm, never saw it fall below 52 psi at any engine speed above 1500 rpm. idles 650 rpm with 20 psi hot. What are you guys doing to your cars on the street?? LMBO


Edited by White70JavelinSST - Jan/02/2019 at 10:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 11:27am
Searched through a bunch of AMC sites and didn't find any AMC technical specs for extra oil capacity with Fleet, Police or Taxi use.  If there is a special AMC TSM, TSB, something in the SAE papers or other document squirreled away showing 6 quart capacity, please post and share?
 
Also, lots of fleet cars got 6 cylinder engines.  Was the recommendation to run an extra quart also with the 6 cylinder?  Has anyone compared oil level in the pan at 4,5,6 quarts with the 6 cyl. pan vs. V8 pan or vs. other OEM pans?
FWIW, I have an Armando 8 qt. pan and at 8 quarts, the level is lower than 5 in the stock pan ... but I guess with the extra capacity it doesn't need to be overfilled.
 
What is interesting about the Police pan is it doesn't seem to have a windage tray over the sump.  Without a tray, crank windage typically blows the oil out of the sump ... or at least it's not very well controlled ... unless it's a very deep pan with oil level far below the crank.  Maybe the tub around the pickup helps?  Anyone know if they fit a separate windage tray with the Police pan?
 
Thanks,RD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 11:39am
It is not a regular issue unless you are really abusing the car, to be fair. I have had it happen twice in 30 years of ownership, once when I was about 21 and once about 5 years back after a highway run. Bear in mind, I have 4.10 gears, so highway use is not it's forte!

6 quarts is insurance for the guy that revs it a bit high, once in a while. It is not a replacement for a proper oiling system in a race car. Personally I am not a fanatic about keeping it at 6 quarts but I don't let it get below 5. That way, even with some in the valve covers, it still has 2 quarts or so in the pan. It is more of a straight line car, but that does keep it out of trouble, even when I run it in the occasional club autocross event.

Chris 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anti Chrysler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/02/2019 at 3:12pm
I got my first AMC when I was 17, over 30 years ago. I've always ran 6 qts. Never an issue. The extra $1 (1987) to $4 (now) really isn't an issue either. The crankshaft will not hit the oil.
Truth be told, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you could get away with 7 qts.


Edited by The Anti Chrysler - Jan/02/2019 at 3:17pm
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