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Help with Cam selection (again)

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Airdrie AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airdrie AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/10/2018 at 10:10pm
Personally i would trust the recomendations given to you by the folks who do this for a living. Given the specs on your build i don't think either is too big, if it were me I'd go with the Howards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic Silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/10/2018 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by Greyhounds_AMX Greyhounds_AMX wrote:

I'm still hung up on the compression ratio though. With iron heads and standard 93 octane fuel 9.5:1 is what most people consider the limit. Are you going to run octane booster in every tank, or maybe race fuel? We have ethanol free 93 octane here at the pumps, but that's as good as it gets. I think someone mentioned E85, but in my mind more ethanol is not a good thing with our old tech gasket materials, fuel pumps diaphragms, etc.

Granted you can back the timing off if it's pinging, but then they tend to overheat. Overheating and pinging = new pistons. 

Another thing to consider: The single plane intake manifold will have a more aggressive idle than a dual plane intake, so if you really want the beefiest idle sound possible you might want to go with the Torker.
Do you think that gas today has that much less octane rating than in 1969? Back then , you could run 11:1 with no problem on premium with the 350/350 (223 at .050) cam that I mentioned. From what I understand, today's 93 octane is about like 1969's 97 octane or so. I know it isn't 100 octane , but 100 back then would run 10.2 with a stock cam in an AMX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 8:56am
... maybe this would be a case for a Comp Thumpr cam or similar?
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1447&sb=2

From Comp Cam's Lobe Profile Catalogue (if Greyhound'sAMX wants to plug numbers into his spreadsheet for comparison)



... or best to go with advice from the cam companies. Can always ask them for another option if you don't like their first suggestions. A bit of back-and-forth to narrow in on the right cam is typically worthwhile.

Hope this helps,RD

Edited by Red Devil - Oct/11/2018 at 9:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXrated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 9:29am
@Red Devil: Thanks for advice--I did contact Howards & Bullet and told them that I was really looking for something that would run in the 1,600-5,500 range and idle around 800.  Haven't heard back from Howards but here is Bullet's response.  I will say that the guy from Bullet is on it and seems really excited about my project:

From Bullet:
If the compression ratio will be close to 10 to 1 (9.5-10.25) it can use some duration.
Especially with this being a 4 speed. This will have a good sound and will still be
Driveable with the 3.54 gear. Yes, these are .904” lobes !


Intake
231 @.050”
.340” lob lift, .544” with 1.6 rocker
276 duration @.006”

Exhaust
234 @.050”
.335” lobe lift, .536" w/ 1.6
284 duration @.006”

112 lobe separation 
108 intake centerline

Duration and lift are still pushing the envelope based on some of the above recommendations, but it seems less aggressive than their first spec.

Thanks. 

You can have my Hurst shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXrated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 9:45am
@Red Devil:  I did contact Comp Cam's and ask about the Thumper line of cams and they came back with a recommendation to use their XE274H.  Greyhound pointed out that would be a bad choice due to my high DCR--plus the guy from Comp was complete @$$hole--very arrogant and rude.  Told him I had no idea what I was doing when it came to cams and he talked down to me the entire conversation.  Figured there were a lot of other cam grinders out there that might actually want my business.  

Guess I could give them another shot--I can deal with jerks if they have what I need...

[EDIT]

Sorry--I asked them about their Magnum line of cams not the Thumper (but the guy was still a jerk).


Edited by AMXrated - Oct/11/2018 at 10:18am
You can have my Hurst shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 10:55am
The Thumpr line of cams were designed mostly to get that "cackling" idle most like ... but they also tend to bleed off compression, have a rougher idle and lower idle vacuum. Some like them. Some not so much ... and yes, Comp tech aren't always the best to deal with.

FWIW, I'm running a Bullet cam and also found them quite helpful and good to work with, so I wouldn't be afraid of going with their recommendation ... but I also don't know your tolerance level for a bigger cam ... although not overly "big" compared to some. My cam is 250@0.050", 0.616"/0.624", solid roller, a 6 speed and power brakes. Works fine for me and I'm not a racer - just wanted a fun street toy. The stick makes a big difference in cam tolerance as you can basically pick your "stall speed". May want a bit more rear gear with the 2.23 1st to slip the clutch less ... and maybe eventually a 5 speed if you do much interstate cruising ... but expect that cam should have pretty good torque.
exhaust sound

Hope this helps,RD

Edited by Red Devil - Oct/11/2018 at 11:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 11:28am
This Hughes Performance Mopar page tech write-up on .904 dia Lifters is pretty good info...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 1:05pm
I disabled the static compression ratio limits on the spreadsheet and then it came up with just 4 off the shelf cams. Three really, as the Elgin and Summit are the same cam.

I couldn't get a very clear screen shot, so here's a link. I had it plot the smallest and largest just for fun.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/axs8EuRyZpoMEjfWkP_CVbDa4dQrOrUGvv0O2LIY-4O73ITwvdZL4nt_uU8=w2400

The revised Bullet cam came in at 8.25 DCR so it didn't make the cut.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXrated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Red Devil Red Devil wrote:

The Thumpr line of cams were designed mostly to get that "cackling" idle most like ... but they also tend to bleed off compression, have a rougher idle and lower idle vacuum. Some like them. Some not so much ... and yes, Comp tech aren't always the best to deal with.

FWIW, I'm running a Bullet cam and also found them quite helpful and good to work with, so I wouldn't be afraid of going with their recommendation ... but I also don't know your tolerance level for a bigger cam ... although not overly "big" compared to some. My cam is 250@0.050", 0.616"/0.624", solid roller, a 6 speed and power brakes. Works fine for me and I'm not a racer - just wanted a fun street toy. The stick makes a big difference in cam tolerance as you can basically pick your "stall speed". May want a bit more rear gear with the 2.23 1st to slip the clutch less ... and maybe eventually a 5 speed if you do much interstate cruising ... but expect that cam should have pretty good torque.
exhaust sound

Hope this helps,RD

THAT sounds awesome!  Exactly what I am shooting for.

Thanks for posting.

--Jack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXrated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/11/2018 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Greyhounds_AMX Greyhounds_AMX wrote:

I disabled the static compression ratio limits on the spreadsheet and then it came up with just 4 off the shelf cams. Three really, as the Elgin and Summit are the same cam.

I couldn't get a very clear screen shot, so here's a link. I had it plot the smallest and largest just for fun.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/axs8EuRyZpoMEjfWkP_CVbDa4dQrOrUGvv0O2LIY-4O73ITwvdZL4nt_uU8=w2400

The revised Bullet cam came in at 8.25 DCR so it didn't make the cut.


 
Wow, I'm impressed.  Thanks for running the numbers.  

Just so I understand, is there a DCR target that I need to stay below?  I think when I came up with the 8.3:1 number before I used the calculator on pcengines.com and used the Lunati 703 cam specs.   Looks like the cams on your spreadsheet are all below 8:1. 

Thanks again,
Jack
You can have my Hurst shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
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