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OIL PATH AMC DISTRIBUTOR GEAR OILING |
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5926 |
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Found some very interesting AMC Traco Trans Am Engine info in of all places a 1st Gen Camaro Forum...
Like a not previously seen Oil Drain Back Hole Addition Mod to the Cylinder Heads ( pic )... And this interesting post by CRG Forum member Pigpen, a former Traco Employee: "TRACO (Jim & Frank) didn't actually become famous because of Chevys or for that matter AMCs. Yes the Javelin engines put out a little more than the same CID Chevys, but the early AMC track engines could not stand the corners without starving the oil pickup, so there were many not so spectacular blown engines. There's a lot to be said about the compact design of the small block Chevy, the design facilitated oil return flow from the upper portion of the engine to the oil pan, and there were not a lot of places for the oil to get trapped. Small block Fords and AMC's had a lot more room in the lifter valley and around the crank, so oil tended to get trapped. The ultimate answer for the AMC's was to run "Dry Sump". Another interesting difference was the Cyl Head design, Chevy heads had better flow characteristics and required less valve lift than the AMC's, so Chevy cams took far less punishment. For the bottom end though, the AMC's were very strong through the main bearing area, where Chevys were prone to main web cracking. Each engine has goods and bads, the trick is enough power and lasting through the entire race." Pigpen And here's pics from Eddie Stakes page showing one possible Timing Cover Drain Back Mod: |
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Rebel Machine
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Western Il Status: Offline Points: 5121 |
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I took this pic when I first got my Canton pan. This photo was taken looking straight down along the back side of the timing case into the pan after I beat the front of the pan flatter to align better with the timing case. Pan to timing case fitment looking at back side of timing case. Here's the pan to main #1 clearance. |
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401Ambo
AMC Nut Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 307 |
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'72 401 Ambassador wagon
'69 pro-Street AMX AMX/2 (starting soon) |
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5926 |
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Just a middle aged hobbyist Hot Rodder guy. Had a '69 AMX from 1985 to 2014. Paid shop to do 1st motor rebuild. Self-assembled the next three. Web active since about 1995. Not my ideas, those of many others. Collected many little "Oil" things that can be done. Mandatory? Doubtful. Helpful? Maybe. In no way an endorsement, just a compilation. Quite a bit here really once all typed up. Sure there are more, will edit / add as needed. Kinda 2 categories: - Do things to what is already there - Add, change, replace things AMC V8 Oil System Checks and Modifications Obvious - Cam, Crank, & Rod Bearing Clearances to AMC SPEC - Pick-Up to Pan Clearance to Spec Lifters - ? Correct FIT Lifter to Bore, .904 Lifter OD and Lifter Bore ID - ? Lifter internal design, oil volume passed - ? Restrictor Push Rods Rods - ? Bearing Oil Squirter Notch at Rod / Cap JointOil Pump - Deburr New Pump Gears and SHAFT SLOT to prevent any damage to shaft hole in Timing Cover - Temporary Assemble New Oil Pump Gear and Actual Distributor that will be used for Final Assembly w/o Drive Gear to Confirm NO BINDING between Pump Gear Shaft Slot & Distributor Shaft Drive Blade - "Parkman Mod" ? at bottom of Pump Gear Pocket for "anti-surge" - enlarge / port match Round Outlet Hole in pump cavity pocket - use late angled cover rather than early 90 cover - block off filter bypass, or new cover with out - change threaded filter Adapter for one that fits larger later filter - inspect Pressure Relief Plunger Passage for finish and size - soften / blend oil passage intersection corners where possible Oil Pan - ? run approx 1 extra Quart, more than 5, less than 6 - ? aftermarket larger Aviad oil pan, but significant cost Block - port match Block Front Ports to Gasket / Timing Cover - confirm / clean drilled passage from pump up to top center oil galley - blend / soften internal oil galley intersection corners where possible - 3/8 Pipe Plug - SHALLOW, Pass Side Front of Block - confirm full drill through Main Saddles up to Lifter Galley - inspect oil pan rail suction passage - Pick-Up, confirm no galley obstruction once screwed into pan rail - ? add ~1/8 oil drain holes in lifter valley, or others ? - ? Chamfer / Blend 2 Front Oil Drain Holes ? Drainback - deburr / blend lifter valley drain back corners - ? Modify bottom of Timing Cover at Front Bearing Cap "gap" area - ? Traco Mod, small hole drilled through between Pushrod Holes in Heads Heads - inspect / blend / ? enlarge ? cylinder head drain back holes - No umbrella seals, machine valve guides for Perfect Circle Valve Stem Seals Cam - Correct Cam Bearing Installation Oil Hole Size & Location - confirm front snout stack-up oil passages - Cam Sprocket, ? Front Face Slinger Grooves, size and quantity ? - Full Groove front most bearing and/or journal - bleed hole rear most bearing journal - Rear Freeze Plug installed depth -------
You mean to tell me the new "better than anything before or since" Chevrolet LS V8 Motors have an Oiling Circuit that is more like the AMC !, that being the Oil Pump is now in the Front with a longer Suction Side and it oils the Lifters FIRST and the MAINS are LAST ! Am I seeing things ! Edited by PHAT69AMX - Jan/29/2019 at 12:23pm |
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6916 |
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Strikingly similar except for the path at the block rear of the lifter galleries. This would provide even oil pressure in both galleries.
The bypass line familiar to everyone is used to ensure pressure front and rear on the right gallery. The LS is a bit better on the supply side with the "ring" oil gallery - my opinion. The suction side - the shorter AMC version gets my vote. The left gallery on the AMC with so little flow was always the first side to build up any "contamination" and the lifters seem to always stick on this side first.
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5926 |
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Well look what I stumbled upon on the Holley / MSD / all else they now own Web Site...
in their Troubleshooting Techniques area... "Modifying AMC oiling for performance" hmm.., any of you all seen this already ?
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White70JavelinSST
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4867 |
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Looking at the picture that Phat posted and came from Traco showing holes drilled in the heads between the pushrod pass through holes. My thought is they only help when the amount of oil in the rocker area is deep enough to flow into those holes, which is what? Maybe a quart or more in each rocker area?? But if the engine is running 7 or 8 quarts, no problem.
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70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
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PHAT69AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5926 |
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THANKS TO REBELMACHINE, 401AMBO, 67 MARLIN, AND ALL OTHERS WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD ! 72POS has videos posted on his FaceBook page of his highly modified AMC race motor running and looking down in the Valve Cover Breather Holes and you would NOT BELIEVE the amount of OIL circulating around inside those Valve Covers ! Those 2 Oil Drain Back Holes on the corners of the Heads must just be very restrictive relatively. And they drain into the Lifter Valley -NOT- the Oil Pan... and the "path" from head to valley is kinda of a more Horizontal flow path than vertical... Plus all Hydraulic Lifters are -NOT- created equal and who knows just how much volume of OIL is pumped up top by whatever brand current replacement lifter from the myriad of manufacturers compared to the volume of oil pumped up onto the heads by stock original AMC Hydraulic Lifters ?...
Edited by PHAT69AMX - Jul/24/2019 at 3:05am |
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rgsauger
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/17/2014 Location: Houston,TX Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Damn brilliant! Man there are some knowledgeable cats on this forum! Can't wait to start on my 360 for my Cj in a few months.
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Rebel Machine
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Western Il Status: Offline Points: 5121 |
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I did this type of testing a few years ago when I was chasing an oil pressure problem. Running the oil pump with a drill won't flow as much as if the engine were running for a couple of reasons. One reason is the oil is cold and thick when using a drill. Another is since things aren't moving feed holes aren't moving around and being lined up with the pressurized oil feeds during rotation. For my testing I looked at the drainback paths in the heads as well as how much was flowing past the crank bearings. Got video of running engine valvetrain oiling and drill driven pump valvetrain and crank bearings. Instead of restricting the oil feed in the block I used restrictive pushrods. Easier to change if need be. -Steve- |
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