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nickleone
AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/04/2008 Location: westminster co Status: Offline Points: 1445 |
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Posted: Jul/02/2018 at 8:26pm |
CAM OIL. High "ZINC oils needed to break in new solid lifter cams and lifters.
Recommended by cam manufacturers. Nick
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nick
401 71 Gremlin pro rally car sold 390 V8 SX/4 pro rally car sold 1962 Classic SW T5 4 wheel disc brakes |
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DocCreer
AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/03/2009 Location: Portland Oregon Status: Offline Points: 1568 |
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I use 15w40 diesel oil in all my cars.
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61 American
82 eagle limited |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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10W30 with at least 900 parts per million of zinc and roughly the same parts per million of phosphorus. Quaker State high mileage 10W30 meets that requirement and is what I use. As for lead in the gasoline, your valve seats will have reduced life without it. Pouring additive into the gas every tank fill is a pain in the neck. I say just run the engine on regular gas with no additive until the valve seats fry (which could be thousands of miles down the road from now) and then do a valve job when that happens. I find that cheaper and easier than using additive. Just drive it until the seats fail on their own and then take care of it.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6884 |
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By all means, Mobile 1 with ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 classifications from their selection:
• An HTHS viscosity between 2.9
and 3.2 cP (API FA-4)
• An HTHS equal to or greater than
3.5 cP (API CK-4)
API FA-4 oils with lower HTHS will offer
potential increased fuel efficiency, but
would be restricted to newer engines
designed to run on these lower HTHS
viscosity oils. This may exclude many
older engines found in existing fleets.
Engine manufacturers are evaluating
their hardware to see if engine durability,
especially for ring and liner scuffing, is
an issue with low HTHS viscosity oils.
Taking advantage of these new oils
would enable companies to meet new
US Environmental Protection Agency
and National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration requirements.
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Yup - that's the whole point - the oil companies have had years to get it right and today's oils are far better, and the built-in additives are better. Besides, zinc does nothing, it's the phosphate......... ZDDP people call "zinc" but if you added zinc, you'd gain zip.
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I run ordinary oil bought at Wallyworld - but NAME BRAND, instead of their brand.
I run Mobil 1 synthetic in my Eagle, and Quaker State or Havoline in my Javelins. NO ADDITIVES - but if you are concerned, the oil marketed for "high miles engines" is a good choice. I can point to information from a guy who ran scientific wear tests and ended up proving a lot of folks, and urban legend, wrong. In fact, he showed, as oil makers often agree (not those who buy refined oil and then market it under their name, but the big boys) that additives added later, once you put the oil in, can make wear WORSE. It's always best to use oil that already has the additives. He did several wear tests that proved some of the favorite additives actually increased wear - because to be best it needs to be blended with the oil during other processing, not in your engine. However, the fear-mongers still persist and argue - even though science has shown, WEAR testing has shown, there's little to worry about - for one thing, the oil companies saw all of this coming decades ago and had a huge customer base with cams like ours and had to keep their cars alive. By the way, it's NOT the zinc in ZDDP that did the work - too bad people keep saying "you need zinc". Nope, sorry, the zinc just happened to be part of the formula. Zinc had nothing to do with it - except the side-effects to the CATS. Unfortunately, the way the WEB works, it's so easy to read and copy what one sees and paste it in your own site, and then another comes along and copies and pastes that, and so on, that when you do searches, you keep getting the same old tired info over and over - and no matter how many times it's repeated, that doesn't make it more true - so you have to dig past the first few pages of search results to get to the good stuff, the REAL scientific WEAR tests with various oils and additives, and the engineering perspective. My Javelin 390 was done more than ten bloody years ago, with a COMP XTREME cam (radical ramps) and the cam to this day still looks like new, as do the lifters (I've swapped intakes a few times and each time I check just so I can tell how good it looks - and be honest about it) My 73 Javelin 360 has a non-stock cam in it, it's built more for performance, and I've had the intake off of it and yeah, I checked cam and lifters, several thousand miles, HARD runs and I mean HARD, and a month over ten years, cam and lifters look great.
My Eagle was done several years ago and over 30K miles ago and I beat on it, it's got a COMP xtreme 4x4 cam - again, radical ramps and it sounds like a truck engine because the lifters are shoved up and dropped back down fast so the valve are full open pretty quick and close quick at the last moment and it's doing fine with Mobil 1 oil. I don't run any additives in any of my cars. |
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6884 |
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The newer oil is better and more refined for today's overhead cam engines, no disputing that.
The problem is the old flat tappets and rockers. Example (easy numbers): new and old engines both take 100 lbs spring to keep valves closed. The new overhead cam engine sees 100 lbs load on the lobe tip. The older engine cam sees the 100 lbs x the rocker ratio, typically 6:1, so the tip of the cam and the bottom of the tappet see 600 lbs. The new oil is good to keep metal to metal contact, not be squeezed out, to 300 lbs. Good safety margin on the new engine. The old engine will see metal to metal contact between lobe and lifter as there is nothing in the oil to prevent this. They use to use ZDDP at 1200 or more ppm and European oils are trying a Moly additive, but both clog or reduce the effectiveness of catalytic converters. They are now putting catalytic converters on diesel engines and they are also running into engine problems. Here, many trucking firms are getting out their old Peterbilt, Mack and International trucks so they don't have to use the urea i.e. diesel fuel additive for the catalytic converters. |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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There is a company up here selling 'Cam Oil' which supposedly has been formulated with more zinc to meet the old specs. I don't bother because from what I remember a lot of engines used to need overhaul by about 100000 miles. Today they easily go double that and I think it is because today's oils are better.
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Trader
AMC Addicted Joined: May/15/2018 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 6884 |
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State it again - engine oil IS only backwards compatible until the oil was made obsolete by the American Petroleum Institute (API).
Go to your favorite oil manufactures web site and since AMC's are not listed put in a V8 or I6 Mustang of your year - same oil specification. See what you get. Read the manufacturers specification sheets or just give them a phone call. SN-RN is NOT for older motors and most SN unless the jug states "SL, SM, SN" are not good for your stock engines. Your list will be short or none existent. The short list of "high mileage" xxW-40 or xxW-50 should be telling you something - maybe. Or just trust that backwards compatible is forever, just like 8 tracks, beta, vhs ... vinyl is making a comeback!
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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If your engine still uses a rocker shaft you might want to check that it is getting enough oil up top. If you see oil over the front rockers through the oil filler cap hole it will be OK. My 232 engine (67) was low miles and clogged up, wearing out rocker shafts, probably from not being driven fast enough or too infrequent oil changes. By 69 they may have corrected that problem.
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