73 Javelin brake and suspension project

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   That all looks so clean and pretty Bill. Now you just have to clean and paint the springs to match. 

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
pit crew Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: delete Status: Offline Points: 5341	Post Options Post Reply Quote pit crew Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 8:13pm
	That all looks so clean and pretty Bill. Now you just have to clean and paint the springs to match.
	73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 8:20pm
	I almost had to close my eyes when putting that spring in.......... but didn't want to take the time right now. Maybe in the future....... Yeah, I hated putting that thing in there like that.
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com

Lyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/17/2014 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 772	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 8:45pm
	Bill, Your post 5:56PM, picture #3, part #8.835-1 from Red Devil's image. The boss on the bracket that holds the caliper is thicker on one side then the other. Are these parts interchangeable left and right side? If that part was on the other side the caliper would be placed inboard more, away from the rotor. Not saying what your doing is not going to work but looking at the pictures, have to ask so others may not have to go through the frustrations your having. I used an 81 Concord setup on my 69 Javelin and didn't go through what your enduring.

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 9:35pm
	Nope - the brackets behind the spindle that hold the caliper bracket are two different part numbers and have a machined surface that the caliper bracket itself bolts to. The caliper bracket has a recess the bolts fit into and a flat side machined on the other side that mates to the bracket behind the spindle. In short, the bracket behind the spindle that holds the caliper bracket and the caliper brackets themselves have a left and a right - and have different part numbers cast into them. 8.835-1 is what I bought from mrblatzman (Bob) and there are a left and right. Remember he posted one for sale and we determined the part number he posted I believe was the right - he also had a left he sold me. They'll only fit one way, one side. Besides, the caliper would have had to move OUT away from the engine bay to work - the outboard pad, the one closest to the wheel, was what was hitting the rotor hard. So either move the caliper out or the rotor in. Since the brackets could not be changed and only fit one side, the obvious choice was to machine the spindles. Were the calipers and brackets you used the same as these? Remember, I'm using spindles from an 80 Concord with Bendix brakes on a 73 car that had drum and am mounting heavy duty Kelsey Hayes brakes. AMC also changed brakes somewhere in 81 - and even 82. I found three different disk brake setups - the brakes from an 81 I parted wouldn't work on an 82 and both were different than the 80 Concord! I'm not really "going through" that much - I could have waited and looked for the correct spindles for the HD K-H brakes for a 73 but opted to spend ten to fifteen minutes each machining spindles. ;-) I did them myself - so there was no cost or travel time. Edited by billd - Mar/15/2018 at 9:41pm
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 9:56pm
	What's causing the most pain and taking so bloody long is the amount of RUST and CRUD under the car. Yeah, it looks slick, runs great, etc. but the PO did ZERO for the suspension, steering and brakes. In fact he totally ignored the mechanical and suspension aspect of the car - to the point some parts crumble as I remove them such as the clips that hold brake hoses to the frame bracket, and the small snubber mount bracket that bolts to the frame with three bolts - totally rusted and pitted and the rubber "snubbers" were GONE GONE GONE. Inside was a quarter inch of rust and crud. It takes a lot to get that out - with chisels and so on. Can't blast it as it's too hard. Even electrolysis takes a lot to get that stuff out. It may take a half hour just to clean one of those brackets - then when the brake hose clips crumbled, crap, now I need those stupid clips and don't have any. I knew the sway bar links were toast - but the brackets that hold the sway bar to the frame are messed up, too - one looks like it hit something and the other is badly pitted and decayed. Oddly enough the front frame rails seem fine. Some of these parts may take an hour each just for basic cleaning. Takes more time to clean and de-rust, de-scale and get them ready for service again than anything else. So now I have to find sway bar bushings, see if I can dig up better brackets, find and order those control arm "snubbers or bumpers or whatever....... can't get them locally or even rockauto so that must be an AMC vendor only thing. (and those are a pain to install later once the rest of the stuff is back in place because the bracket that holds them is under the upper control arm when the car is raised up) I bought a roll of the copper/nickel brake line and will be making all new brake lines for the car.... leaving nothing to chance there. And the most fun part - that bolt that broke off when trying to remove the left shock tower top - still need to get that taken care of. The bolts that held the control arm "bumper" or "snubber" bracket to the frame were totally unusable - rusty beyond my wanting to clean them up and plate them. Need to dig some of those up from somewhere.
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/16/2018 at 4:52am
	There are left and right brackets, but they CAN be swapped side to side. What that does, however, is move the caliper from front to back (or vice versa). Have to keep bleeder on the top, you know. So the brackets are mounted the same no matter which side you're on. Doesn't matter if the caliper is in front or back braking wise -- forces are the same. So why swap side to side? For clearance. IIRC Hornet/Concord et al have the caliper to the rear. I had to move caliper to front to use disc brakes on my 63 American, and I'm pretty sure on the 63 Classic also. 66 and earlier cars not originally designed for disc brakes typically need the caliper to the front for clearance. I don't recall how 66 Classic/Ambo/Marlin brakes are installed though. They used a special hose and the thin Bendix solid rotors, so they may not have clearance issues. The Bendix four piston calipers are smaller in some dimensions (closer to rotor) than the big single piston calipers too.
	Frank Swygert

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/16/2018 at 7:27am
	These must be mounted as I have them - steering arm would stop caliper from mounting since it mounts using bottom front bolt and top rear bolt. It mounts diagonally and sticks out and up at the rear behind the upper ball joint There really was little choice with these big calipers and these specific brackets. Also - concord I have had caliper to front - likely because of how steering arm bolts on using lower front bolt and upper rear bolt meaning the steering arm would be sticking up and out there at the rear. No choice on that car, either. The only car I have with the brake caliper to the rear is the Eagle - and on that car the steering arm bolts on using the BOTTOM two bolts. It does not cross diagonally up across the back of the knuckle because there's an axle going through the knuckle. The steering arm bolts on the lower bolts below the axle and the caliper mounts to the rear of the upper ball joint and not in front like my other cars. I think you'll find that because the steering arm bolts diagonally lower front bolt upper rear bolt on most of these cars the caliper is to the front. I couldn't swap brackets and move the caliper back if I wanted to. You are correct in that they cannot be swapped side to side in the front because they are machined and cast a specific way. They are not symmetrical in that respect.
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com

Red Devil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743	Post Options Post Reply Quote Red Devil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/16/2018 at 10:45am
	Excellent attention to detail Bill. Very nice! If you could post the final thickness for your spindle flanges (in decimal, please) it would be much appreciated. IIRC, you said they started at 7/8" thick? Based on details from Wilwood for their kits that work with KH spindles, need to be around 3/4" thick, so with 0.100" removed must be in the ball-park. I'm sure it would help others looking for spindle options for Wilwood kits to know the flange thickness. Thanks,RD.

Lyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/17/2014 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 772	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/16/2018 at 11:13am
	A lot of the front and rear suspension "polymers and brackets" are the same as Mustang pieces. I don't know what the 73 suspension stop looks like but this one from Summit was identical for the 69 Javelin: https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/bbk-2531/overview/ Mustang pieces are a lot more common and cheaper. If Summit has it then Rock Auto will likely. Here in the North we have far few parts suppliers so have to do more "strategic" searching for parts.

billd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894	Post Options Post Reply Quote billd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar/16/2018 at 4:45pm
	RD- before I started I used a mic on them to get an exact measurement. I actually wrote it down! Yeah! I then machined some off of one, tried it, decided I wanted it better centered, took some more off - fit it again and it was great. So I took the final measurement of that one with a micrometer and did the other the same. So I have starting and final thickness written down. Lyle - I hear ya - it's almost that bad around Des Moines - oh there are part stores - but they only have really common later model stuff - and I mean REALLY later and REALLY common. I'm going to proceed with all the stuff I have and will have to order (via a vendor or RA or Amazon or whoever) the stops/bumpers/snubbers and the sway bar bushings (the ones that hold it to the frame) One bracket was bent as the car apparently hit something at some point or some idiot jacked it up there.
	http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com