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73 Javelin brake and suspension project |
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billd 
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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 Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 11:37am |
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No one has the correct information on which washers were used with DISK brakes in 73?
Did they use the thick flat washers behind the nuts for the spindle, or lock washers? I'm pretty sure it wasn't both - I am guessing they used lock washers for the nuts for drum brakes and thick flat washers for disk brakes due to the thin splash shield vs. the thick backing plate for drums. Looking to find out which washers were used where - what was CORRECT for DISK brakes on a 73 - the bolts, washers and nuts used for the spindle to steering knuckle......... And pictures or description of what was used where? |
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Red Devil
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Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 11:57am |
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Hi Bill,
From Amxess post:
Can confirm the nuts and lockwashers on mine are all on the inboard side ... but honestly don't know if they have ever been removed. Don't know if there's room for washers under the bolt heads and clear the hub? Hope this helps,RD |
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billd
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Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 12:06pm |
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Does your car have original disk brakes? Does it use lock washers or flat washers?
I have two sets of the four bolts - four of them have lock washers and four of them have thick flat washers. This tells me that AMC used EITHER but not both on the same bolts - What I'm trying to find out if the conversion i'm doing I should use the flat OR the lock washers. The problem with the parts book is that it doesn't really say anything - and it shows two different directions which I've never actually seen. The same reference number shows EITHER lock or flat - so it doesn't say "lock washers with drum and flat washers with disk". The half inch bolts, the larger ones that hold the caliper brackets on use lock washers - that's a given since they don't use nuts but screw directly to the other brackets. So I know about those - bolts and lock washers But the four that hold the spindle on - flat OR lock washers - for disk?
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Red Devil
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Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 12:17pm |
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Mine has the factory original KH brakes ... but don't know if they've ever been fully disassembled? In the 28 years or so I've owned it, I've only changed rotors, bearings, calipers, pads, hose and hard lines. Will have to pull a rotor to check as I forget if it had washers under the bolt heads? Definitely nuts on the inboard side, and pretty sure with lockwashers ... but need to double-check.
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 1:29pm |
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Looking at the steering arms and the knuckle it appears only cap screws (bolts) and not flat washers because there's a pattern that fits the tiny shoulder or ledge under the head of the bolt (making it a cap screw, technically speaking)
If there was a washer under the bolt head I'd not expect that pattern in the cast parts. COULD BE WRONG of course! |
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billd
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Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 1:35pm |
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OK, it's warm and dry enough I went out to look at the concord. Those parts are still sitting and laying there under the car, uncleaned.
I appear to be very wrong - The pattern in the RUST and dirt would indicate fat flat washers on the bolts first, then the bolts were slipped in, then lock washers at the spindle. So if the CONCORD was correct, it was bolt head, flat washers, steering arm and knuckle, spindle, then lock washers and nuts. (I left out the disk shields because I don't have any!!) Good thing I bought new grade 8 lock washers. So they did use both. Interesting. Flat under the bolt head, lock under the nuts. There's PLENTY of bolt length and in fact it would be better with both because the bolts would protrude more without them. |
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billd
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Posted: Mar/14/2018 at 4:56pm |
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I had to have the nuts totally snugged up to clear the rotor - if they were loose at all they rubbed - the lock washers of course pushed them out. I pulled the rotor off and tightened the four bolts for the spindle and put the rotor back.
I then tried to mount the caliper to see how things would fit and - wasn't able to get the caliper on. The outboard pad was too tight against the rotor meaning that the rotor was out too far. When I did get it sort of mounted and snugged things up it was almost impossible to turn the rotor because the outboard pad was against it. There was plenty of space on the inboard side of things. The verdict - I have to machine the mounting area of the spindles to move them back inward so the rotor would move inward and give clearance. I have the right spindle almost done but stopped for the day. I've taken off about 1/8" so far and will take off a bit more and try it. I'll keep track of the dimensions - how much I had to remove compared to the original thickness of the spindle mounting pads and document that. Otherwise things appear ok so far. Sure glad I can machine those myself!! That way I can take some off and try it etc. The good news is - NO WASHERS - of course unless I screw up! The worst part is cleaning and prepping and painting parts - blasting, solvent tank, wire brush, ugh. I used my press to install the bushings but it was easier to install the sleeve with an original tool....     |
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MD Racer
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Joined: Jul/14/2012 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 3:15pm |
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You have the bolts on the wrong way. The bolt heads should be to the disc rotor side and the nuts with lock washers on the back side toward the engine bay.
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1971 Javelin
1971 Javelin SST 1971 Javelin AMX |
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farna
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Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 4:57pm |
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I was about to say the same thing! Disc brake cars usually have the bolt heads on the spindle side, drum brakes have nuts on spindle side.
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Frank Swygert
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billd
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Posted: Mar/15/2018 at 6:59pm |
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Farna is exactly correct......... the Concord had the bolt heads toward the rotor - the 73 Javelin which is what I'm putting disks on had the NUTS to the spindle and the bolts came in from the back.
Farna nailed it. That is because the large nuts didn't clear the rotor back side. MD Racer is seeing my MOCK-UP phase - you don't put the bolts in through the spindle side when you are going on and off, on and off, fitting parts and machining the spindle, etc. Otherwise you have to pull the whole thing apart instead of simply pulling the spindle back off and leaving the bolts in place. And that brings me to my next "progress post". I machined the spindle mounting pads and got the rotor sitting right under the caliper. The rotor sat too far out as it was - put pressure against the outboard pad. So I machined until I got equal clearance pad-to-rotor on both pads when the caliper piston was fully retracted. In other words, piston clear in, pads in place, there is now the same amount of clearance between pad and rotor, inner and outer. To accomplish this I machined 0.100" off the back side of the spindles. It's taking forever - have to clean and derust parts, and some of the parts are really badly pitted and rough, and fitting things just right took a while. The right side is mostly together, the left is next....    |
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amxess wrote:
