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which 6 cyl is in my 64 american wagon?

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FSJunkie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 12:15am
The only reason to be concerned about the durability of any components in your engine or drivetrain is if you plan on pumping significantly more power through those components than they were originally designed to handle. They will perform with perfect satisfaction with stock or mild power increases. 

If a Chevy swap is on your mind then yeah, you're going to blow the original drivetrain. Easy solution: don't swap it. 

Unsynchronized first is no big deal. You really only use first to get the car rolling anyway. Either wait until the car is fully stopped to downshift to 1st, shift into it at the speed the car idles at in 1st gear with the clutch out and your foot off the gas, or double clutch it at higher speed. Never "ham fist" the shift. Just gently ease it in. They are big spur gears with rounded edges and some minor clash isn't going to kill them. 


1955 Packard
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1972 Wagoneer
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1977 Hornet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 12:27am
thanks...i plan on keeping it bone stock...i want to drive it and the main reason i bought it is they are supposed to get great gas mileage....non synchro first gear is not a problem..i was just curious....the car has 92k on it...the motor looks fairly clean so hopefully it will run as good as it looks...lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 6:34am
I drove a 63 American with 196 OHV for 14 years ... as my daily driver. They are tough, but do require more maintenance than a modern engine.

1. As TomJ mentioned TORQUE THE HEAD BOLTS before you drive it much. You don't have to worry about any tightening sequence if you just do one at a time. Back off the bolt (NOT with your torque wrench!), then put torque wrench on set at 62 ft/lbs and tighten back down. The valve cover has to come off to get to half the bolts. Don't over-tighten the two valve cover bolts. Snug down is it. If it appears to be leaking at the back get a new gasket and make sure the cover isn't warped or bent around the edges. The gasket is like a bog rubber o-ring -- no sealer used.  Torque the head every 10-12K miles or every three years -- whichever is first. If you don't do this, you could end up with the motor running hot and a cracked head. This is necessary because that is one BIG chunk of cast iron head, and it expands and contracts just enough to eventually loosen the bolts. I torqued every other year and averaged 7K a year on my car, so went 13-14K on occasion.

2. The valves use mechanical lifters and they need to be adjusted about the same time you torque the head bolts. It should sound like a well oiled sewing machine all the time. The clearances for the valves are on the intake plate. Valves are supposed to be adjusted with engine at full operating temp. It won't throw oil around with the valve cover off. Valve arrangement is I-E-E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E-E-I.  Use a feeler gauge and push it between the tip of valve and rocker with engine running. Takes a little practice, but you'll get it the first time you try it. Push it in and out as you tighten/loosen the adjuster nut on the end of the rocker. Holding the wrench on that moving nut it a little disconcerting at first, but easy. It should make no noise with the gauge in place, sewing machine when it's removed. A little loose is better than a little tight. Loose and you lose just a little lift and power, but you won't notice a 1-2 hp loss. Too tight and you could burn a valve -- you'll notice that as the cylinder won't make full compression and power will drop as oil and fuel consumption go up... and it may smoke too.

3. There are a few things you can do to make it better ad less likely to overheat. Main thing is a little cooling mod TomJ came up with. Don't think you need the electric water pump system he has -- scroll to the bottom of the page for the 65 factory solution. You could get a 65 water pump then drill and tap the bottom of the thermostat pod on the front of the head, but if you have a good water pump just drill and tap fora 90 degree fitting and run a short hose to a T in the heater hose from the water pump. Same results.  http://6ohv.com/Cooling-system/index.html
While this might affect overall cooling, it has more benefit (more stable head temps) than any other cooling effects. At worst it will take slightly longer to warm up and the engine might run just a bit cooler than without the mod. Keep the 195 degree t-stat!  That was factory even before this modification. Running a cooler t-stat won't really help either. The head just gets really hot before the t-stat opens, and a cooler t-stat will still have the high temp swings even if they are few degrees less. a 160 t-stat is just too cool, and a 180 not enough difference.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 6:47am
One more thing... the transmission. It's junk for any kind of performance driving, but for a cruiser is just fine. You basically have a four speed transmission -- the three standard gears then OD. As already mentioned, DO NOT use first gear to slow the car (don't down-shift into first)! You should be stopped or darn near stopped (maybe 5 mph...) before going into first. It's a torquey engine even at idle -- it won't choke down or jerk like a modern car will if you're going too slow for a gear -- it will just chug away like a tractor! It will start in second easy enough, but doing that a lot (from a dead stop) will be hard on the clutch. As long as you're rolling 5-10 mph taking off in second isn't a problem at all.

The 196 isn't a modern engine. I wasn't kidding when I said "like a tractor"! It's a relatively slow turning motor. Long stroke, small bore... like a farm tractor. It's good for economy, but takes a bit to get rpm up compared to modern engines. It was designed in the late 30s, first came out as a 172.6 flat-head in 1941 , converted to OHV in 1956. The conversion is why the head is so big. No, you can't bolt an OHV head to the old flat-head, they changed the block a bot, but all internal parts (except valve related) will actually interchange.

Once you get it going we can talk about the OD. To start I'd pull the handle (which locks OD out) and get it going like that. With the handle out you have a standard three speed trans. With the handle in it will free-wheel when OD isn't engaged. That means no engine braking or parking in gear -- it will roll off! When I had an OD car the only time I used that handle was when parking, but you could use the parking brake instead. Oh... or push starting the car... that won't work with the handle in.  The important thing is to not pull the handle while the car is in OD. Best not to pull it while the car is in motion at all, but as long as OD isn't engaged you can.

To engage OD all you have to do is be running about 30+ mph and let off the gas -- OD will automatically come in. To go disengage OD you either drop below about 30 mph, or floor the accelerator. That will work like passing gear in an automatic trans. There is a fairly complex electrical circuit that probably has a failed component if OD doesn't work, or the kick-down (floored throttle) doesn't work. When you get to that point I (and I'm sure others!) can help track down the issue.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 4:55pm
is the od operated by a solenoid?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 5:18pm
Yes,  and as far as I know all the solenoids for the Borg Warners (in AMCs) are the same except that they are 12 volt solenoids after the cars changed to 12 volts.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by auag85201 auag85201 wrote:

thanks for the replies...i just got the car..it has been sitting for years..i dont want to dump any money into it until i can get it running and make sure the motor is in good shape...

but this is precisely what ruins all of these old 'sat for years' motors. these are no longer 'old cars', they are antiques. there is a much higher probability that running it before addressing it will ruin it. very high.

changing all the fluids and re-torquing the head is pretty much mandatory. and it is stiull likely that in a week a month or a few you'll hear the inevitable rod knock because the oil that's been between bearing and crank and rod journals has hardened and spinning it up will immediately damage them, which manifests with failure in a few months.

and you gotta wonder why it was parked in the first place... people don't generally abandon solid runners.

i realize i sound grouchy here, and for that i apologize. i don't want to ruin your fun or rain on your parade, but metal is metal, and this is all too predictable. many of us have done all of these things.  in fact there's a thread about this very failure mode now!




Edited by tomj - Dec/19/2017 at 8:44pm
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 8:41pm
what frank sez on the cooling system. after all is said and done, all you need to do is to drill a hole in the edge of the thermostat, and orient the hole frontwards. simple! it's an old trick, i certainly didn't come up with it, and it has other advantages (burping out air bubbles etc.) but it's certainly cheap and effective. and on the 195.6, mandatory!


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auag85201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/19/2017 at 8:54pm
tom...i was an auto mechanic for 25 years..and in that period of time i brought many cars that were sitting for years back to life and never experienced what you are talking about..the truck i'm driving now sat for two years...i drive it every day with no rod knocksWink 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickleone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/20/2017 at 12:37am
Cheap radiator?
I put a 1995 Explorer radiator in my 1962 Classic with a 196.
Had to fab up hoses and a mount.
Pull a Part radiator was $25.00.
I did tomjs fix for the cooling.

Nick
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